Has Tango Mundial been over all positive for spread of tango Internationally

[Bailango]

I know the tango mundial style of dancing (if there is one) is often critic’d in the forums and sometimes by tango afficiandos too. The main criticism being the lack of musicality in tango mundial style dancing.

My question is over all has mundial helped spread the growth of tango internationally.

I think the answer is yes. While tango has already spread internationally before mundial became prominent, I think it has created more opportunities for tango as a dance to flourish.

The tango finalists are often younger. Being a finalist is like a passport to being invited to different parts of the world for teaching. It is a stepping stone to becoming instructor with credentials. Though there is very little correlation between the teaching ability and being mundial finalists.

More people teaching tango is good. Mundial financials have often labored over technique and movement to train for the championship. So they are able to bring more movement focused training when they branch out as traveling instructors. Fresh blood entering the teaching world with new ideas is good for Tango. We could disagree with the new ideas but it prevents old ideas from getting stale and dying.

I also see local dancers try to participate in the qualifier events. Not to win the competition but to practice and improve their tango. It is good for the community to have dancers who have taken to improving their tango seriously.

It creates awareness of what tango is. Attracting perhaps some who wouldn’t have been otherwise.

 

[JournalInTime]

I know the tango mundial style of dancing (if there is one) is often critic’d in the forums and sometimes by tango afficiandos too. The main criticism being the lack of musicality in tango mundial style dancing.

The principal criticism I hear is the sameness: The judges are looking for something – "How to Dance in the Mundial" courses are a thing, after all – and the participants try to deliver that. A personal touch certainly matters, but that's an accent, not a sure-fire winning element. I have a personal anecdote about this that I feel isn't wise to share here, but it suffices to say that my assertion is more than speculation but not quite confirmed.

My question is over all has mundial helped spread the growth of tango internationally.

Without a doubt!

A qualifier in a big city is a huge shot in the arm for the profile of tango in that city – and with due respect to those who don't live in big cities, big cities are where tango lives and breeds. I'm not sure that quarter-finals, semi-finals, and finals enjoy sufficient coverage to change anything for anyone who isn't already a tango fanatic, because they're in a single city (BA) and most participants are either from there (wildcards) or stopped being true locals and started traveling a long time ago, but qualifiers bring the family, friends, and even coworkers of local hopefuls out to cheer, and some decide to learn tango.

I also see local dancers try to participate in the qualifier events.

I think that's the most important part, when it comes to answering your question. People who make it into the final rounds are preaching to the choir – their "star power" speaks only to dancers – but local hopefuls at the lowest entry point to the competition are ambassadors to non-dancers.

Not to win the competition but to practice and improve their tango.

Not speaking directly to your point, but: When we had qualifiers here, I was pressured to enter. Three people who aren't my partner wanted me to be their partner, but I said "no" out of respect for my partner, who didn't want to compete. There were parallel events that had the same judges and rules, but weren't part of the Mundial, and at the last instant (literally . . . we were in the room and people egged us on), my partner and I did one of those. We did it for fun and only for fun, but I'd be lying to say that it didn't make me dance my best. There's more to it than winning.

 

[opendoor]

I know the tango mundial style of dancing

Change "style" for "format" and I'm with you. Style points in the wrong direction because there also is the style Carlos Pérez and Rosa Forte shaped in the esrly years of the Mundiale.

 

[Brummbaer]

My question is over all has mundial helped spread the growth of tango internationally.

It's unknown outside the world of tango/dance afficionados. I'd say Strictly/DWTS has done more (although a stereotyped perspective, but then so is the mundial), and al fresco events are probably a better advert, and attraction, for the general public to participate in 'social' AT. Yes, it's provided a CV reference for would-be teachers, but can they teach?

Maybe it's been a personal motivation and satisfaction for a few. Are they going to have a satisfying social dance afterwards? What do they do after the effort and expense? It would be interesting to know the AT attrition rate of participants.

 

[Bailango]

The principal criticism I hear is the sameness: The judges are looking for something – "How to Dance in the Mundial" courses are a thing, after all – and the participants try to deliver that.

I remember watching documentary on YouTube that followers one couple’s journey through mundial. They were winners (national champions) and representing one of the countries (I think Asian). They arrived in BsAs a month before the start of mundial and would practice everyday for 7-8 hours or more. They had hired local coaches.

My guess is mundial participants boost the finances for those local instructors, at least for a month. Though with so many visitors going to BsAs, teaching tango must be a good income stream.

A personal touch certainly matters, but that's an accent, not a sure-fire winning element. I have a personal anecdote about this that I feel isn't wise to share here,

I didn’t get that what do you mean by personal touch is an accent. An example?

 

[Bailango]

Change "style" for "format" and I'm with you. Style points in the wrong direction because there also is the style Carlos Pérez and Rosa Forte shaped in the esrly years of the Mundiale.

How do you differentiate between style and format?

I was hesitant to use style to describe how competitors dance at mundial. As far as I can tell it is more technical focused movement and polished.

 

[TTanguero]

I know the tango mundial style of dancing (if there is one) is often critic’d in the forums and sometimes by tango afficiandos too. The main criticism being the lack of musicality in tango mundial style dancing.

I wouldn't personally say that the performances lack musicality. It's just that most are very similar, and that includes a particular style of musicality which is attempting to mark every single note, so for me it lacks variety.

My question is over all has mundial helped spread the growth of tango internationally.

I don't think I know anyone outside of tango who is aware of it, but it does create traveling teachers who then do help create awareness. So yes, I think it plays a useful role – even if most non-tango dancers seem to think the entire tango world is about competitions!

 

[Brummbaer]

that includes a particular style of musicality which is attempting to mark every single note, so for me it lacks variety.

It's a competition! You do what you think the judges want to mark highly - like any 'exam'. You've got to be really good to 'upset the apple cart' and offer something different which an audience may(!) support but not what the judges wanted to see.

it does create traveling teachers who then do help create awareness

I'm uncertain if, overall, that's good. They trained for competition, not for 'social'. They may not be able to teach - although some may have gleaned something from their teachers. Too many travelling marketing their wares without skills. It upsets the local marketplace, not necessarily for the long term good. However 'new blood' will be needed as milonga organisers and teachers age.

 

[Rabbit]

Shows are much better in terms of exposure tbh. And I would much rather have stage-influenced dancing (Minus lifts for safety reasons) in socials than mundial-salon. But there don't seem to be many shows outside Buenos Aires currently.

 

[opendoor]

How do you differentiate between style and format?

Style is a certain tradition. Format means occasions (competition, social dance, práctilonga, show, class).

I was hesitant to use style to describe how competitors dance at mundial..

But you didn't ! Sorry, what you wrote only was about the format. I mentioned Los Pérez. Please Google them before we continue the discussion!

 

[Brummbaer]

Shows are much better in terms of exposure tbh

Yes, but they have to be popular. What there are around are playing in small provincial theatres or 'arts' spaces, although there have been some at dance theatres in London.

We attended a tango music 'gig' before the summer. Actually very good! And they ought to be live at milongas if the costs can be afforded. But in a small 'arts' space, funded by various art organisations, and in a space in the library. We were the only tango dancers there amongst the elderly (and the carpeted floor wholly unsuitable for any attempt at dancing - which had happened at other gigs).

If you look around then it's general dance professionals putting on some show of tango, which relates neither to the Mundial nor to 'stage' tango. A few attempts to give a 'history' of tango as a theme, but not sufficiently popular.

 

[opendoor]

I know the tango mundial style of dancing (if there is one) is often critic’d in the forums.. The main criticism being the lack of musicality in tango mundial style dancing..

Excuse me? The predominant style in the pista category is "Villa Urquiza." And this style is particularly concerned with musicality. Milonguero style is the absence of musicality. Sorry, I've studied both styles, I know what I'm talking about, but apparently NOT you!

 

[JournalInTime]

It's unknown outside the world of tango/dance afficionados.

The overall competition is certainly an unknown to non-tango people, but the qualifiers drum up "Joe and Jane are in some big dance thing, and would like us to go watch them compete" interest that increases tango's local visibility. The audience at the qualifiers I attended in July was full of siblings, aunties, work buddies, old pals, etc. who didn't dance.

I'd say Strictly/DWTS has done more (although a stereotyped perspective, but then so is the mundial)

Even local dance shows do that. We have a regional one where a well-known tango teacher and performer competed, and her "after" persona brings in more students than her "before" one (I know her, and simply asked outright). These students are mostly interested in tango escenario, but beggars can't be choosers.

and al fresco events

Agreed . . . seeing people dance brings in students. Outdoor milongas aside, my city has street fairs where major avenues are closed to vehicles to let restaurants offer food on terrasses, merchants peddle goods on the sidewalk, performing artists perform, etc. A few streets are "pedestrianized" all summer for this sort of thing. Dance studios often put on little demos out front a few times per day throughout, and yes, these bring in students.

And once again, that's local – extremely so, in fact. The recurring theme here is "local."

What do they do after the effort and expense?

The effort and expense are comparatively low at the qualifier level – in principle nothing beyond paying a modest fee and showing up. Demands ramp up in the quarter-finals and beyond, but people going that far are living and breathing tango already, and have no issues throwing a lot of time, money, and energy at it, whether that means competing, teaching, festival-chasing, lessons, or simply going out to dance. Few people start tango to compete in the Mundial . . . but some start tango inspired by the Mundial, because local friends who dance are involved. It's what those local friends need to convince non-tango people to finally show up to a tango event.

It would be interesting to know the AT attrition rate of participants.

As I wrote, I doubt that anybody who's at the level where they can plausibly compete isn't already a tango addict, so that rate is probably very close to 0. Only the "truly, madly, deeply" crowd enter competitions. I'm sure that non-dancing acquaintances, friends, and family who come out to cheer them, see tango, and take it up have an attrition rate, but it's impossible to say whether that rate is any higher or lower than that of any other demographic that takes up tango (e.g., couples seeking couples activities, lonely people looking for hugs, retirees looking for retirement projects, or tourists going to BA to learn tango).

 

[JournalInTime]

I didn’t get that what do you mean by personal touch is an accent. An example?

Mostly that there is a certain look, body of vocabulary, musicality, etc. that gets the highest marks, so you want to hew closely to that. A personal touch can be anything from a surprising haircut or outfit, through some rarely seen adorno, to a playful musical game that breaks from how you were dancing up to some measure. Something that makes the judges notice couple #000, hopefully in a good way (but of course it's a gamble).

 

[JournalInTime]

even if most non-tango dancers seem to think the entire tango world is about competitions!

Indeed, the ballroom-to-AT pipeline is fairly wide here, and pretty much everybody I know who has started AT from a ballroom background has asked me, "So, when, where, and how do you compete?"