has there come point for any of you where ON-1/ON-2 lines are blurred?

[yippee1999]

I learned salsa ON-2 and have been dancing that way for a few years now. Then one time a friend showed me the basic for ON-1. So I now know that for followers, they start the ON-2 basic by moving in a forward direction, whereas for ON-1 they go BACK.

I dance at a wide range of venues; some have mainly ON-2 dancers and others have primarily ON-1 folks. Initially when I found myself with ON-1 men, I got pretty messed up. I think I was so fixated dancing ON-2, and was perhaps so inexperienced and insecure, that I felt unable to veer off at all, from that which had been taught to me.

But what I've begun to notice over time is that at some point, somehow, the lines seem to have become blurred. Some guys dance ON-2, some dance ON-1, and some...god only knows what they are doing. But regardless, it seems I am less focused on knowing "is he ON-1, ON-2, or doing his own (unintentional) hybrid?", and I'm more focused on simply following HIM, regardless of "what" he's doing. I DO know that when we first get on the dancefloor, I WILL wait for him to begin, and at THAT point I will pick up what he's doing and start myself with either the 1 or 2 basic. But after that, it seems to be a no-brainer for me. From that point on, I'm not really thinking "oh, we are dancing ON-1" or "we are dancing ON-2". I'm just dancing.

So I have to say I'm really happy that I've gotten to this point, as I feel this is a good thing, no? Last night I danced with a particular lead three times, and I have to tell you, I felt like a dancing princess!! (Don't you love when you find a partner like that?!) He was a great lead, a great dancer (these two qualities don't always go hand-in-hand...), and most remarkably, he really knew how to work the floor. The dancefloor was quite crowded, and he had us doing some pretty fancy moves, and not for a moment did I feel I had to dance small, or watch out to be sure I didn't bump into anybody (which is what I've had to do with other leads at times). I felt totally secure with this guy. And at the end of our third dance, I was telling him what a great lead and dancer he was, and how much I enjoyed it. He said "do you dance ON-2?" I said "yes", to which he replied "wow... I was dancing with you ON-1...and you were still able to follow me." I honestly didn't even know "what" we were dancing on. We just danced!

So anyway, is there something I'm missing.... is the difference between ON-2 and ON-1 really not that great, and it's really just a matter of how you start your basic, and then how everything else just naturally follows? Or maybe a better way to put it (don't want to start an ON-1 vs 2 thing) is.... for those of you who can dance both styles, do you find there's really not all that much difference?

 

[quixotedlm]

i can't dance much on-2, unless i'm dancing to some real slow music, and even then, i'm probably catching myself going wrong all the time but i get the distinction, so here is my 2c..

It's really great that you can follow anyone. It's fun to dance with someone who can follow me really well. But..

... but it would be even more fun if my follower danced to the music while following me also. I know I'm not super good at that, but I try. And I would love the followers I'm dancing with to listen to the music. And essentially, this will cause you to be aware of what beat you are breaking on, because the aesthetics of reacting to muscial variations are somewhat different for each.

since you already know on-2, and can follow either, you are no longer using up all that brain power to stay a true follower. so maybe you can invest that into thinking about the beat and staying true to the music independently of your leader?

 

[MacMoto]

But what I've begun to notice over time is that at some point, somehow, the lines seem to have become blurred. Some guys dance ON-2, some dance ON-1, and some...god only knows what they are doing. But regardless, it seems I am less focused on knowing "is he ON-1, ON-2, or doing his own (unintentional) hybrid?", and I'm more focused on simply following HIM, regardless of "what" he's doing. I DO know that when we first get on the dancefloor, I WILL wait for him to begin, and at THAT point I will pick up what he's doing and start myself with either the 1 or 2 basic. But after that, it seems to be a no-brainer for me. From that point on, I'm not really thinking "oh, we are dancing ON-1" or "we are dancing ON-2". I'm just dancing.

.... for those of you who can dance both styles, do you find there's really not all that much difference?

I don't think I've got to that point yet...

There are times, especially at congresses (where I don't know the leader most of the time, and music generally favours on2), when I start dancing thinking the leader is dancing on2 and only after a while it dawns on me that he's actually been dancing on5 . Sometimes you can go on dancing on2 with an on5 lead for quite a while before the timing difference becomes obvious (or he finally slips into on1)...

And I'm very bad at following on6. Much worse than my on5 or on3.

 

[yippee1999]

good point quixote. you are right, insofar as... I am so focused on being a good little follower, that it seems I don't allow myself to "feel" the music, as (for me) to feel the music would mean that I'd then want to do my own thing, which in turn might prevent me from being "ready" to pick up the lead's next signal. So I tend to forego feeling the music, as I feel I can only do one or the other .... feel the music, dance to what I feel, and then be in my own little world and "selfish", ergo less ready to follow... OR I can blank out my feelings, and focus on the leader and what he wants me to do next. And I'm more concerned with being a good follower and not being seen as a self-centered follow, so I lose out on really enjoying the music, all so that I can please the guy. Hopefully someday I'll figure out how to accomplish both.

Which brings up another thought.... I find that I "hear" the music better, or apply moves to it better, when I can anticipate, which basically means I already know the song, or else have picked up enough of the musical pattern to know what might be coming next. I tend to plan ahead when solo dancing, and so do my best dancing to songs I already know. Not sure if that's true for most?

SO many components to being a good dancer! And again, the more I learn, the more I have YET to learn! Argh.

 

[Bailando]

I understand where you're coming from. I learned on2 and now mostly dance on1 and a little on2. The lines can be blurred and naturally so--it's basically the same step, but to a different beat, so to speak. When I first started dancing on1, I found that I was getting really confused as both my body and my ear were automatically moving to the on2 beat. I even found that I had to count in my head to make sure I stepped the right way.

Personally the main difference for me is that on1 dancing just isn't as smooth and fluid as on2 dancing. Or, maybe it's just me....I just love the softness of on2 dancing...and can't really say that my on1 dances are anywhere as smooth.

Anyway I think I'm almost to the point where I can just follow whether it's on1 or on2, but I think I'll always prefer dancing on2 because that is how I interpret the music.

 

[Vin]

The mix: First I differentiate between 2 different types of on2 and on1. ET2 and power2.

ET2 and on1 are different steps to the same beat, where as Power2 and ET2 are different steps on the same beat(sort of, the 4-5-1 blur together sometimes, which is where the difference between power2 and et2 occurs) and power2 and on1 are the same steps on a different beat.

That said, it is all just dancing, being a lead I get dance my preference more often than the ladies.

For me I always like to be aware of where I am with the music. The style/timing is not so important so long as it makes sense to my partner and I in that particular moment in time.

 

[DCR]

I like to keep it shorty and sweet cause people want to make a rocket sicence of this.

The timing may be slightly differnet but the dance is still a dance. I enjoy dancing.

 

[noobster]

I *think* that I usually notice. I definitely feel like I notice if someone switches his break step from 1 to 2 in the middle of a dance.

On the other hand, if there are times when I didn't notice, I wouldn't know about them!

is the difference between ON-2 and ON-1 really not that great, and it's really just a matter of how you start your basic...

Actually that is not the thing that usually catches my attention. Like you, I tend to wait and see what the guy does, then follow his basic (whatever that may be). But sometimes guys who dance on2 will switch the 1 and 5 (accidentally or on purpose, doesn't matter and I don't mind), which switches the lead's and follow's timing and results in the follow going back on the 1. But both are still breaking on the 2.

The thing that lets me know whether I am dancing on1 or on2 is that unmistakable "pow!" of the on2 break. It feels stronger in some songs than others. If it is a good on2 song, it is like, 2! 6! Pow! Yeah! Mm!
On a song like that, if I am dancing on1, I miss my pow.

Breaking on1 has a little pow. It is like, 1! 5! If you know what I mean.
Some songs are really fine for on1, and there are even songs where I'll be dancing on2 and feeling like maybe I would rather break on1. But I mostly ignore the feeling as I don't typically have much choice in the matter.

OTOH if there is someone around playing a clave, no way I can break on1. I'll either break on2 or just hit all 5 clave beats. I don't recall ever having been partnered with an on1 dancer when there was live clave. I wonder what I would do.

 

[azzey]

OTOH if there is someone around playing a clave, no way I can break on1. I'll either break on2 or just hit all 5 clave beats.

What do leaders do when you suddenly dance on-clave? Since when you dance all 5 beats you'll then be out of sync with ET2, Power2 etc? How do they adjust?

 

[noobster]

What do leaders do when you suddenly dance on-clave? Since when you dance all 5 beats you'll then be out of sync with ET2, Power2 etc? How do they adjust?

I don't usually do that while in close partner work (though it's tempting, heh). I try to do it only if I'm alone or in T-stance or open shines, or at most doing partner moves where I am mostly in place and my footwork is not so important.

Although actually sometimes when a strong clave beat comes up, I think I sort of muscle my partner into letting me do a T-stance or open shine by just starting to dance on-clave and making it harder for him to do partnerwork. Heh heh heh. :twisted:

Edit: Is OneCentSalsero around? I definitely remember doing this to him once (starting to step on-clave during partnerwork), maybe he can say if he found it annoying. I doubt he'll recall the incident though. Yoo-hoo OneCent!

 

[squirrel]

For me, it's impossible not to be aware of the beat I'm dancing to. The music just hits me in the head. Cannot (and would not) ignore it!

And I do try to dance to the music! To follow its ups and downs, its breaks and instruments.

 

[englezul]

To follow its ups and downs, its breaks and instruments.

Guess what! I got a fever..and the only prescription is MORE COW BELL!!

 

[tj]

A little more cowbell...

 

[noobster]

For me, it's impossible not to be aware of the beat I'm dancing to. The music just hits me in the head.

Well, that works for leaders.
But as a follower you're stuck following whatever style your leader knows (or prefers). So e.g., even if the music 'hits you in the head' as on1-appropriate, if your leader only knows on2 then that's what you'll be dancing.

I actually try to suppress my style preferences based on the music because I think they get in the way of my following leaders who don't agree with my choice, or who don't know the style I feel is most appropriate to whatever is playing.