Have any of you been dropped during a lift?

[Dragonfly934]

My instructor dropped me from his standing height during a lift yesterday, and it was terrifying for me. I think I'm bruised in several areas but hopefully nothing too serious as all of the pain has been slowly improving. However, I did also fall on my head which was what scared me the most b/c I know that certain head injuries can leave you paralyzed or even dead.

I cannot blame him solely for how it happened since lifts are a partnership, but I do feel that he rushes me at times. He has all these lofty goals, and while I want to take things more slowly and practice the lifts step-by-step to make sure the technique is correct and it is safe, sometimes, I feel that he wants to rush from Point A to Point E just to do something that will impress other people. He is definitely more of a risk taker more than I am, and he himself has had several injuries in the past.

I have never been dropped before, and now I'm scared to even resume theater arts with him. I know that communication is the best, and I can tell him how I feel (we need to be safer and take things slower), but if I give him another chance, and I fall again, there's always the possibility that I could fall wrong and suffer the serious effects as stated above (paralysis, death).

I also dance rhythm and smooth with other teachers and have so much fun dancing in general, that if I quit theater arts, I will still be happy (I do love dancing much more than doing theater arts), but I just wanted see if anyone out there has been through the same experience and what came of it. Thank you.

 

[Cal]

On the few occasions when I've seen pros - really experienced pros - work on lifts that include positions involving risks of head injuries, they've used mats and spotters first. If *I* were in your position, I'd flat out refuse to do the risk-of-head-injury lift unless there were mats and experienced spotters, and possibly even a theater arts coach, present.

 

[danceronice]

Sure, skating. Nick (my skating coach) felt awful but it was my fault more than his, I mistimed the entrance and there was no way he could save it. I landed on my backside, it hurt a bit, he was horrified (skating guys get it beaten into them from day one that they must ALWAYS save the girl, so even when there's nothing they can do to fix it they feel responsible) I got up and we did it again. Like getting punched doing Smooth, horses hurt more, so I wasn't really bothered by it.

If you're uncomfortable working on a lift, speak up. It's YOUR NECK. Insist on either changing it to something you're more comfortable doing (ie not having your head pointed at the floor) or having a spotter and/or pads until you're comfortable with it. Skaters practice some lifts and jumps with a harness the coach holds (basically a fish pole or a 'flying harness' like the movies use) that won't actually keep the skater from falling, but which will slow them down enough to avoid getting hurt, and it lets them get comfortable with the move while feeling secure.

 

[FancyFeet]

I do feel that falls and drops sometimes happen, and can be part of the learning process... that said, you should never feel like you need to do a move with as much risk as a lift unless you feel comfortable, and there are ways to learn it that reduce the risk (see the above posts for some suggestions).

I've never been dropped, but I have flat out refused to even attempt to put a lift in a show routine - I trust pro (mostly) and know how strong he is because we occasionally workout together, but when choreographing a routine only 2 weeks out from the show where we'd have only a couple of hours on it together, well, I just didn't feel safe. There was not even a challenge from pro on my "no".

 

[Mr 4 styles]

Unless your instructor can overhead press 1.5 times your weight for ten reps.. I'd quit that move The great theater arts males are mad powerful in the gym. The lifts aren't dead weight obviously but the effective mass goes way up then the centers don't align or momentum adds an effect

 

[raindance]

you should never feel like you need to do a move with as much risk as a lift unless you feel comfortable, and there are ways to learn it that reduce the risk (see the above posts for some suggestions).

This. You are doing this (presumably) as a hobby. There is zero need to take risks you are not comfortable with. There are several things in your post that indicate you are not 100% comfortable with this pro lifting you. In addition you are questioning whether the general risks of theater arts type lifts are worth the risk to you, personally. These are all very good things to think about.

I cannot blame him solely for how it happened since lifts are a partnership, but I do feel that he rushes me at times. He has all these lofty goals, and while I want to take things more slowly and practice the lifts step-by-step to make sure the technique is correct and it is safe, sometimes, I feel that he wants to rush from Point A to Point E just to do something that will impress other people. He is definitely more of a risk taker more than I am, and he himself has had several injuries in the past.

If you do decide to continue with theater arts, IMO there are enough red flags here (I counted 6 just in this paragraph) that I think you should seriously consider a different instructor who is not only very skilled, but just as importantly very focused on your safety.

 

[DL]

I absolutely agree with the consensus view of responses so far, particularly raindance's "red flag" assessment, and advice to look for another instructor.

Additional questions for consideration (feel free to treat them as rhetorical):

How much dance experience do you have?

How many teachers have you talked/worked with regarding lifts?

 

[anntennis]

Even top ballerinas get dropped sometimes. Article about Alina Cojocaru ”In 2008, during rehearsals she suffered a whiplash injury that almost ended her career and required surgery and months of rehabilitation".

http://www.theguardian.com/stage/2013/nov/24/alina-cojocaru-interview-ballet-corsaire-nutcracker


Your instructor has to be one of the very top in the ballroom world (observe similar moves with his other students) and you have to be at the high dance and athletic skill level to go forward with lifts safely.

 

[danceronice]

Your instructor has to be one of the very top in the ballroom world (observe similar moves with his other students) and you have to be at the high dance and athletic skill level to go forward with lifts safely.

Well, no, they don't, that's a gross exaggeration. What you need to do lifts safely is either one person (ideally the base) is experienced OR you have an experienced coach supervising, and you need to be reasonable about your abilities and pace and take reasonable precautions. This includes not doing the big red flag mentioned, wanting to rush from A to E *to impress people.* Anyone within reasonable body-type limits can learn lifts and dips. But it's a learning process. I'm bigger than some girls, but I can be easier to lift because having learned it in skating means I know how to hold myself and help. I've seen experienced leads get hurt doing lifts, dips, and drops with girls who think their role is 'sack of potatoes'. The lift-ee has to learn to be held and to enter and exit, the lift-er has to learn how to do it safely and securely. If neither's especially experienced, or one is uncomfortable, you bring in a coach. This pro sounds like he's not doing that or taking reasonable precautions.

And as the ballet and plenty of other examples show, you CAN be the best and still get hurt (male pair skaters are trained to the hilt and one trip can cause a fall they can't stop.) Doesn't mean only the best should do them (for starters, you'd never have new people learning that way as everyone's a beginner at some point.) It means you do it the right way. Does NOT sound like the OP's pro is.

 

[dbk]

Your instructor has to be one of the very top in the ballroom world (observe similar moves with his other students)

No... They need to be respectably good at theater arts, or some other style of dance that trains lifts. Ballroom does not usually train lifts (drops/dips/etc., yes -- lifts, no), so it really doesn't matter how good they are at ballroom; they need to have at least cross-trained.

 

[raindance]

It also really depends on what sorts of lifts you are talking about - if the person being lifted has their feet inches or a foot or two off the floor, with their head facing upwards and their body relatively upright, that is a whole different thing than someone being lifted over another person's head and spun around with the lifted person's head pointed toward the floor. And there are many variations in between. (I think some of the variations in the comments above may in part be related to people picturing different types of things as lifts.)

Any lift has some risk of injury. But some lifts have much higher risks of really spectacularly bad injuries (head injuries, spinal injuries, etc) than others. Based on the OP, it sounds like some of the riskier lifts are the ones in question.

 

[danceronice]

And it's not even always the lift itself, it's the transitions in and out. It's a lot showier to come down out of a star lift by swinging down into a fish dive with your head inches from the floor, but it's a lot safer to come down feet first if you're even slightly uncertain about the lifter's ability to control the descent. The one time I fell out of a lift skating, it wasn't the lift, I never even made it up all the way-I don't remember if I went too early or too late, but I was no longer supporting myself but wasn't in a position where Nick could either finish the lift or set me down early so he had to let go. If a guy's strong, holding the girl over his head or shoulder isn't all that dangerous, but getting her into and out of that position can be downright terrifying if done wrong.

 

[FoxTrotExtrovert]

This is a timely topic for me as my teacher wants to do a lift in our next routine and I told him I'm scared to do it. He's not pushing me and I know he'll take as much time as *I* need to get comfortable with it -- even if it means we don't do it at this routine.

I agree with @raindance in that I see a lot of red flags in your post. It doesn't sound like your instructor is overly concerned with safety and more concerned with getting the reaction from people no matter what the costs. If you are coming on here asking questions, that tells me that your gut tells you that maybe doing lifts with him is not the thing you should be doing. (Hope that made sense!)

True, lifts are a partnership, but like any partnership there has to be trust.

 

[NURDRMS]

Pro and I have been doing theater arts for the past 4 or 5 years. I've been dropped hard once or twice but usually we work into the lifts really carefully. One rule we ALWAYS follow is to count our way into each and every lift. Hard to explain, but it's always 'and 1' with the 'and' being the prep step and '1' being the actual lift. We work the entrance into and exit out of each lift every time so that we quickly get used to where our weight will be.

 

[anntennis]

No... They need to be respectably good at theater arts, or some other style of dance that trains lifts. Ballroom does not usually train lifts (drops/dips/etc., yes -- lifts, no), so it really doesn't matter how good they are at ballroom; they need to have at least cross-trained.

Most ballroom dance teachers I took lessons with( Primarily from Russia and Slovakia) have very good, even strong ballet training and know how to lift a partner/ or a student. I guess that would be cross training.

I saw my teachers lifting students, and even though, nobody was dropped, it did not look good to me. You can see either tremendous effort from teacher’s side, or that female student puts her legs too far apart and loses her grace completely (reminds me frog’s movement).