Captain Jep
Active Member
Yes I'd second this. I'm sure it is very uncomfortable, so pointing it out is crucial (he may well be unaware of what he is doing)
head pressers
- Thread starter jfm
- Start date
Yes I'd second this. I'm sure it is very uncomfortable, so pointing it out is crucial (he may well be unaware of what he is doing)
borisvian13
Member
Very interesting thread... It has always been my understanding that it's up to the follower to decide whether or not to keep a head contact but apparently I'm horribly misguided on this matter
Anyways can someone explain to me how exactly a follower could be enforced to keep a head contact against her will, unless the leader uses brutal force, of course? And if this is the case, why on earth would anyone want to dance with such a leader ? A "thank you" after one whole song would be too polite in such circumstances...
Anyways can someone explain to me how exactly a follower could be enforced to keep a head contact against her will, unless the leader uses brutal force, of course? And if this is the case, why on earth would anyone want to dance with such a leader ? A "thank you" after one whole song would be too polite in such circumstances...
spectator
Member
Oh No! I missed you! I wasn't in town last night!
Head pressers arrrgh!!!
as nancy would say "Just say no."
I have erased my dotty experiences it doen not do well to remember such things, I just hope you declined the CDs.
You know what? I think sticking to little people is the way to go, I know you can dance with tall people and I've seen you both do it but it just makes life easier. especially since some tall people seem not to like it, and it avoids the horror of them realising just how light you are and deciding to fling you around.
Although some of these answers go back to the question, of how do you avoid dancing with people when the stand in front of you and ignore the fact that you are obviously suddenly either deep in conversation or frantically searching through your hand bag?
Also it is hard to say no to 'nice' people, even if the dance is excruciating, so I can see why saying "thank you" early or an outright "no" might be hard. I am very wary of pointing out flaws (even really serious problems) on the dance floor as some guys take it very, very badly. In my experience, some guys will take you pointing out that it really hurts when they twist your arm/ crush your neck/ stamp on your toes as an attack on their masculinity no matter how you put it. I remember hearing an exchange a few years ago when a follower suggested that a guy might want to adjust his step size down (he wasn't giving enough forward intention for the size of step-I'd already noticed this and had spent several months doing the "I'm in fear of being broken" cat-on-hot-tin-roof tango walk). This was not well received and he spent the next few weeks in a massive strop and slagging her off to anyone who would listen.
Definitely a case of pride very much damaged. However sensitively put, some people will always take it badly.
spectator
Member
Very interesting thread... It has always been my understanding that it's up to the follower to decide whether or not to keep a head contact but apparently I'm horribly misguided on this matter
Anyways can someone explain to me how exactly a follower could be enforced to keep a head contact against her will, unless the leader uses brutal force, of course? And if this is the case, why on earth would anyone want to dance with such a leader ? A "thank you" after one whole song would be too polite in such circumstances...
it is brutal force, but remember in many societies people will suffer all kinds of misery in order not to offend.
Or Vaseline!
Or wear your hair in a style that you can adjust to have all of it on your right cheek so that he can't breathe (make sure you can switch it back for other people)
Very interesting thread... It has always been my understanding that it's up to the follower to decide whether or not to keep a head contact but apparently I'm horribly misguided on this matter
Anyways can someone explain to me how exactly a follower could be enforced to keep a head contact against her will, unless the leader uses brutal force, of course? And if this is the case, why on earth would anyone want to dance with such a leader ? A "thank you" after one whole song would be too polite in such circumstances...
If you are in CE, you have a limited range of movement for your head that won't just mess with your balance, technique, and comfort. Where's she supposed to go with it? Take it off and carry it in her hand?
It can be very hard to get your head AWAY from someone who is determined to make contact unless she is the taller partner (and she has to be taller by a fair amount, not just an inch or two). Trust me on this!
Lilly_of_the_valley
Well-Known Member
Exactly. And lets not forget that a head is a very, very heavy part of the body.
I do not dance with head pushers in milongas. In classes, when I happened to rotate into them, I would usually say something, but mostly to very little or no avail.
In my experience, when a person's head sticks out during the dance, lots of other important things are going wrong with that person's dancing. There is no way that single head complaint, even if the person in question takes it into consideration, will correct them all on the spot (or any of them significantly, for that matter). Most of them are nasty bad habits that will take time and effort to get rid of.
Peaches
Well-Known Member
Interesting.Well I find the easiest solution is just to dance in open embrace.
To be honest, I dislike close embrace if it's not chest to chest. It becomes something to be endured rather than to be enjoyed*.
Still, to each their own ....
* well unless your partner is an exceptional dancer that is .... lol
I actually find I much prefer dancing with guys who are significantly taller than me. I find it more uncomfortable to dance with men who are roughly the same height as me in heels. (I'm 5'3" in socks.) My teacher was 5'11", and I tend to find things comfortable up until about the 6'1" range. I just turn a little bit to my right to open the embrace a bit, and let my forehead/temple rest against the guy's chin. Or, if the guy is really tall and I know him well, I will rest my head on his chest.
So much better than having the option of either dancing flat-on (parallel shoulders) and looking over his shoulder or opening a bit and ending up with my nose in his cheek. That's just awkward.
Captain Jep
Active Member
Hmm ... yes interesting
This may explain why I get approached by short ladies for a dance
Regardless of my preference, most of the ladies in the local community are 5ft 4 or less, so I've had no choice but to adjust. Which is OK. We happen to have a number of good intermediate dancers, so I can still get a nice dance.
On the other hand, I do feel like a kid in a sweetshop when I go outside the area, and there are lots of ladies who are taller than this
This may explain why I get approached by short ladies for a dance
Regardless of my preference, most of the ladies in the local community are 5ft 4 or less, so I've had no choice but to adjust. Which is OK. We happen to have a number of good intermediate dancers, so I can still get a nice dance.
On the other hand, I do feel like a kid in a sweetshop when I go outside the area, and there are lots of ladies who are taller than this
I like dancing with little people also, especially in CE, but I wouldn't want to reduce my "leader pool" to those under 5'8", there's not enough of them anyhow!
That really is their problem, not yours. If you were in pain, discomfort or danger, and said so, politely and matter-of-factly, without aggression or rudeness, then they should be man enough to handle it. I think you have a right to say that you're experiencing a problem, even at a milonga. It is unlikely that they'll be able to sort out such a problem instantly, but it could be the starting point for change.
borisvian13
Member
Agreed. I just prefer to call this "determination" brutal force. Apparently I'm too sensitive
...
I guess I'm just as "misguided" as you are on this topic. I don't think ever I've never initiated head contact either, and I certainly wouldn't maintain it if the follower moved away.Very interesting thread... It has always been my understanding that it's up to the follower to decide whether or not to keep a head contact but apparently I'm horribly misguided on this matter
Well, its understandable that you guys are "mis-guy-ded". After all, I'm guessing you don't spend a lot of time following leaders who are taller than you.
Actually, having said that, I should mention that I rarely have a taller leader press downward on my head. The very tall leaders I know typically dance in Open. I do know a few who are closer to me in height who use sideways pressure of their temple to lead in CE. Often these are the same people that I'm trying desperately to make body contact with, but their chest is nowhere to be found...
BTW - I'm not short... 5'5" barefoot and usually 5'-8"+ in tango shoes. (I think that's pretty much right in the middle of the spectrum) So I only have a VERY large height discrepancy with a few guys, and with some, I'm the taller partner.
You say, "no thank you".
We're guys. We don't take "hints" particularly well, (and we don't want to guess). If it's unclear what the woman's intention is, the easiest way for us to find out, is to simply ask her. Most of us will get over (and for that matter forget all about) a rejection, unless the follower does something to make to the rejection memorable.
If you want the guy to ask you again (later on), you need to tell him to ask you later, when "whatever" has occurred (to make it clear for him). If you don't want to dance with him anytime soon, then just say, "no thank you" without any emotion in the rejection. If you don't want him to ever ask you to dance again, then make the rejection something he'll remember.
The rejections I actually still remember, are the couple that I received with a big smile, and one that was very rude (actually it was during a class with partner rotation). I found them all equally to be very strange, and awkward. Going forward, I never approached any of those people (even for a conversation), unless they made it crystal clear that they were OK with me. Funny thing is, the follower who dissed me in the class, actually did that, (months later), so I have no issue with her now.
It really isn't about pride. It's more about not wanting to be with people who don't like us.
One technique that I think is helpful for followers, is to tell the leader what they like, rather than stating the the leader is doing "whatever" wrong. I think most leaders actually do want to know what various followers like. If you tell us, then (assuming we know how) we can make an accommodation (or even a change) in our dance.
However, there is a possible side effect in communicating your preference (or complaining to the leader). The leader may simply conclude that the benefit of dancing with you, isn't worth what he needs to do, in order to make you happy. Thus he could decide to ask others, instead of you (assuming there are other people who actually do want to dance with him). It's up to you whether that is a good side effect or a bad one.
With me, I'm always looking for ways to improve, and expand the number of people who might want to dance with me, but I also know who I am and what I like as well. I can accept that some people just don't like my style. It's nothing personal.
It's a risk for the follower to communicate about issues, but guys take risks in just trying to figure out if the woman wants to dance with him. Everyone is different (and some people are jerks), but it's very likely that even a nice guy will never fix a problem he has, if no one ever tells him about it.
BTW, I have heard more than one teacher say that if the follower gets her foot stepped on, that it's possibly her fault, for not creating the space for the leader to step into.
:twisted: