Help for the acutely Back Weighted

[DanceMentor]

On occasion I get a standard student that has learned to be back weighted, and has been doing it that way for extended period of time, so it is deeply integrated into the way they dance.

I have almost come to think of this as a disorder, because it can take a good amount of time to re-program the student. Here are a few symptoms of a new student I am about to be working with.

1.They line up with their feet intersecting my feet.
2. Their arms are quite tight, probably as a result of using their partner to prevent them from falling!
3. There is little leg extension when moving backwards (since it is hard to lean back and extend the leg too.
4. The rib cage is clearly not lined up over the hips.

Now I have some methods for solving this, but I would love to hear your ideas too, as I want to get this solved as quickly as possible!

 

[Cal]

If you really mean "quickly" and don't care about molly-coddling the solution...well, my Pro's approach would be:
"Do you really think you are balanced over your own foot? Let's see about that - I'll let go and check." Depending upon how many times your student wishes to be sitting on her rear end, you might be able to fix it really quickly.

 

[Gorme]

A person can be back weighted and not fall over. Especially if that person has been doing it that way for a significant amount of time. There's really no quick solution to recalibrating the body. You have to make the person stand straight first and to them, it's going to feel like they're pitched forward all the time.

I know this from experience. My pro has me do absolutely nothing with my upper body, keep arms down at the side and just move around with my feet only. I can feel it right away when my upper half is not lined up with my lower half.

 

[cornutt]

I have to admit I have almost never encountered this problem in a partner. In smooth at least, when there's a forward/back weighted problem, it's nearly always too far forward.

 

[fascination]

I don't get in trouble for being back weighted...but I am routinely let go of to make a point about where my balance is or isn't...and I spend a large amount of time dancing alone

 

[Joe]

All you gotta do is let go.

 

[open_mind]

...Here are a few symptoms of a new student I am about to be working with.

1.They line up with their feet intersecting my feet.
2. Their arms are quite tight, probably as a result of using their partner to prevent them from falling!
3. There is little leg extension when moving backwards (since it is hard to lean back and extend the leg too.
4. The rib cage is clearly not lined up over the hips.

Now I have some methods for solving this, but I would love to hear your ideas too, as I want to get this solved as quickly as possible!

DanceMentor, I would love to hear about your methods!

I am very much back weighted, fixing this has been a focus for me for a while. Guilty of all four symptoms above, all of them. My instructor has his ways of correcting this, but getting that new muscle memory is not coming easily for me. I have to be constantly thinking about it (and then the rest of my dancing suffers). Or worst, quite often I am completely aware that I sit on my behind, but I can't make the body to move the right way. It frustrates me a lot.

 

[DanceMentor]

DanceMentor, I would love to hear about your methods!

I am very much back weighted, fixing this has been a focus for me for a while. Guilty of all four symptoms above, all of them. My instructor has his ways of correcting this, but getting that new muscle memory is not coming easily for me. I have to be constantly thinking about it (and then the rest of my dancing suffers). Or worst, quite often I am completely aware that I sit on my behind, but I can't make the body to move the right way. It frustrates me a lot.

Sure, and I already made some great progress with this student, who clearly as the strength and determination to improve. Much of the problem was her vision for what the lady is supposed to look like in dance position, and her interpretation of how to create that. I'll mention a few things I told her that seemed to help, but of course each person is different.

1. When we walk normally, we place the foot where we expect to be landing next. It comes natural when moving forward, but not as natural moving backwards. Important to recognize is the foot actually moves faster than the body so that it will be there in time to receive the weight.

2. Then #1 is more complicated as people interpret what it means to drag their heel and release their toe when stepping back. They literally have their shoulders falling back while the leg they need to land on next is still in front with the toe released. The foot has to move faster out of the drag and behind the body to receive the weight.

3. There is an area below the belly button often referred to as the moving center. Above the belly button and where the ribs come together is the a place often referred to as the shaping center. I live to just say lower and upper center respectively. When travelling backwards, the lower center needs to move back and create space for the forward mover to move through. It can be a feeling of the forward mover moving under the backward mover with their hips. So in essence the upper center remains more forward as the lower center creates space.

4. The lady's shape is created stretching up and away from the upper center, but the upper center still needs to remain over the lower center (though see #3). An especially common issue is the upper center falls back when moving back. When moving forward there is a little more room to move the lower center slightly ahead, but even that has potential for misunderstanding.

So #3 really feels contrary to what you visualize as the lady's shape as she is almost leaning forward, and to get past the problem more quickly, I literally get them leaning forward to emphasize the opposite.

It's not easy to explain only with words on a forum post, but I hope that helps some!

 

[open_mind]

Thanks! It all makes sense, we basically are working on exactly the same issues. My particular problem is #2 above, the landing on the back-moving leg is a bit jerky, it's almost like I do a little hop on the front foot to transfer the weight on the extended leg. When I move like what feels like naturally for me (i.e., incorrectly), I move smoothly, but my step back is small and literally under my rear end. Instructor says it's getting better. Oh well, patience...

 

[Dancebug]

1.They line up with their feet intersecting my feet.

Why do they do that? How does being back-weighted create this problem?

 

[cornutt]

Why do they do that? How does being back-weighted create this problem?

I guess he means that the follow has her head waaaaaay back as a substitute for proper offset in the closed stance. Because her head is so far back, she doesn't realize that she's lining up dead square to her partner.

 

[DanceMentor]

I guess he means that the follow has her head waaaaaay back as a substitute for proper offset in the closed stance. Because her head is so far back, she doesn't realize that she's lining up dead square to her partner.

Some ladies are very flexible, and I think often you see professionals and try to imitate them, but unfortunately HOW they produced the shape is not as evident for a newer student who doesn't have the same type of training.

 

[Sania]

Some ladies are very flexible, and I think often you see professionals and try to imitate them, but unfortunately HOW they produced the shape is not as evident for a newer student who doesn't have the same type of training.

So true - distinguishing between the illusion and how it was produced is very difficult especially at first

 

[vit]

There is much of illusion in dance overall

Differences in spine flexibility on my 'sample' of ladies in salsa are big indeed. It's mostly about flexibility of the middle and upper part of the spine. Ladies having those parts flexible are able to make a big shape (in standard) while still maintaining their centre of gravity relatively close to the partner, so they are not back weighted. Other have 'broken' shape at the waist and at the neck, trying to do a big shape by flexing those parts (that are more flexible) more. It's not very healthy and is making problems when doing long back steps (where there is a need for additional flexing of the spine). Not to mention that it is much more pleasant to dance with a flexible lady

In salsa, it is causing other problems as well - first being of course unnatural body movement. And also dips for instance are much harder, because lady is backweighted as well, she puts much more weight to the arms of the man holding here, and in addition to that, she is aware that they are not in very stable position and starts being affraid, making her spine even less flexible etc ...

In my opinion, only way to improve this is making exercises for the spine, separately from dancing

 

[tangomaniac]

On occasion I get a standard student that has learned to be back weighted, and has been doing it that way for extended period of time, so it is deeply integrated into the way they dance.

Now I have some methods for solving this, but I would love to hear your ideas too, as I want to get this solved as quickly as possible!

I had this problem in Argentine Tango. My teacher told me to take an old pair of shoes, and with the amazing Ginzu knife, slice off the heel. I thought he was crazy until I tried it. When I felt thunk, it meant I was back on my heel.

These special shoes helped me feel I was on my heels. When the thunking stopped, I was able to pivot. Dancing on my heels prevented any rotation. There is more pivoting in Argentine Tango than in Ballroom, Latin, and Swing.