Hierarchy among dancers

passion said:
I had turned into something that I didn't want to be.

I can SO relate to this! Thankyou for sharing, Passion :D ! Good to have you with us.

I am doing exactly what you are doing, while still battling working up & out of my own placement :roll: . Not easy but I enjoy the challenge.
 
scorpionguy said:
I know we've touched upon Psychology, fear, cultural background....but isn't Salsa really about breaking through these old world ideals and having everyone mix together, regardless of who or where they are from?

I wish........

scorpionguy said:
Sure, who isn't afraid of looking bad...but is this more important than having a good time?

I guess what I am trying to share here, is that I'm currently experiencing a whole new level of subtlties. It has nothing to do with one's dancing ability/level. It's not even about looking good/bad vs. having fun any more. I am far more interested in the intellectual/psychological challenges presented via salsa (as a medium).

My journey has only just begun.........

(Can anyone relate......? Or am I all alone here...?)
 
salsachinita said:
I am far more interested in the intellectual/psychological challenges presented via salsa (as a medium).

I completely relate. It's just within this last month, where I've been trying to take my dancing to a different level... one that overcomes the actual dance and where it can take you emothionally and metaphysically.

My journey, too, has just begun and I'm antipicating all the wonderful things that can come out of it!

Keep me posted on how your journey goes!
 
When I go out dancing the main thing of course is to have a good time.
But it is a give and take thing, so I dance with one or two newcommers or a less experienced person on purpose, and I do the asking.

They often say "but I'm not very good", but I politely drag them on anyway. I do this because I want to encourage people, I take it real easy with them, complement them when they do something right, try things again if they want, and we have a little fun. They always seem happy afterwards.

What I take is that some day maybe they will be my dream dance.

Give so you can take !
 
intellectual/psychological challenges presented via salsa (as a medium).

Wow salsachinita !!

No I cant say I truely follow, but if I didn't live on the far side of the world, I would ask you up to try !!!

Keep Dancing :bandit:
 
salsachinita said:
Dancers of a certain proficiency level would prefer to dance with someone who is similar, if not the same. It's only natural.
Yeh, This is just like everything else in life. One usually prefers playing tennis with someone of their skill level. Boxing or wresting is only fun if your partner has a fair chance of beating you. Why play chess with a pro if you know in a couple of moves he´ll check-mate you...

Even though dancing is not a competition, I think people just naturally feel more comfortable dancing with people of their skill level. Another reason is that you usually have a better chance to get to know these people and become friends (take classes with them, discuss similar patterns/moves, etc.)

What bothers me is the "clique" thing. I know girls who take this to an extreme and only dance with 2 or 3 guys at the club (always the same ones). Why do they even bother going to clubs? Why don´t they just invite the guys to their house and dance there? Of course they wouldn´t be able showoff in front of everyone. Hmmm... Some of these girls must think there´re God´s gift to dance. What´s funny is that I´ve danced with some of these girls, on rare ocasions of course, and some of them aren´t that great... :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: If they only knew... I´ll probably tell them one of these days... :twisted:
 
MapleLeaf Salsero said:
I´ve danced with some of these girls, on rare ocasions of course, and some of them aren´t that great... :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: If they only knew... I´ll probably tell them one of these days... :twisted:

Some people are so used to other people style, or only know a given schools moves, that they really can't dance with anyone else. They excel at stepping around with the same people, but when they are taken out of their environment they completely melt/fall apart.

It's happend to me so many times, the usual NY City Lady is used to spin, spin, spin, spin and more spins. You can put them through a mase of spins and they'll shine like a world class TOP. However, when you remove them from that element, a lot of times, they fail to achieve the same levels as with their stirring chef-mates. The posture required to spin is no longer needed yet they fail to realize hence stay seemingly up-tight through the dance. At which time, it isn't that they aren't good, they just don't know how to adapt.
 
borikensalsero said:
MapleLeaf Salsero said:
I´ve danced with some of these girls, on rare ocasions of course, and some of them aren´t that great... :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: If they only knew... I´ll probably tell them one of these days... :twisted:

Some people are so used to other people style, or only know a given schools moves, that they really can't dance with anyone else. They excel at stepping around with the same people, but when they are taken out of their environment they completely melt/fall apart.

Boriken, actually this may be the case with one of the girls. She seems more comfortable with a certain style which is a little different than mine. However, the others, I know for certain have the same style as me (same dance school, same methods, etc.). Even if I was unsure, I could easily see it in their dance. I believe they are much too confident in their dance skills. What’s worse, they are convinced the only good leads around are their partners´. Hmm…

When I was a beginner, I wasn’t very good (worse than the average beginner). I then met this girl, we became good friends and started clubbing together. I would dance around 70% of the time with her. After a while, I felt that we really connected and that she was a great dancer. Whenever I tried dancing with someone else, things wouldn’t go well. I eventually convinced myself that my partner was the only real good dancer in the club (at least at my level). Only after some time did it hit me – the problem had to do with me and not others. I was so used to dancing with her that she’d compensate for my lack of technique and lead skills. I realized it was time for me dance with as much different partners as possible. Several months later I could dance with practically everyone (at my level). My leading skills and technique had improved exponentially. It was a great learning experience.

I suspect this may be the same situation with some of the girls I mentioned. They just assume the problem is with others and that their partners are the only good leads because they feel comfortable with it. For me a good follow, amongst other things, is one who can adapt to certain lead. I know ladies who exceed in this area and most of them aren’t snobs. Their follow seems to be custom made for almost all leads.

It’s kind of funny, I met the partner I had as a beginner last Friday at a salsa club. I hadn’t seen her or danced with her for a long time (around 6 months). After the first salsa, she whispered in my ear “You are still the person I feel the most connection with - I love dancing with you”. :oops: :oops: :D :D

Have a great weekend,
 
That is true, that when dancing with one partner for a majority of the time, you get used to each other and dancing styles meld.

However, I feel that people can adjust to other styles as long as they are given a chance. When I dance with someone new, somethimes the dance doesn't go well. That is only because we are adjusting to each other and learning to read each other. In all actually, there's a very short amount of time to do that properly. Given a little more time, or one more dance, two new partners may find that their rhythms work very well together.

If the first dance flopped and and second was given a shot, and you can match or adjust your styles, then maybe that partner's style and chemistry can not meld with your and you should move on.

Dancing with the same person for the majority of the time is fine, but I feel that in order to grow and improve and have incredible dancing experiences, one must venture out into the unknown or less familiar and try out a new partner. Because whether you stand and fly with a new partner or fall, your favorites will always be there to pick you up and give you an wonderful experience.
 
My experience with Salsa dancing outside of our university ballroom club is pretty limited, but I see something similar in the swing community. It goes something like this:

You dance most who you're most comfortable with, and you're most comfortable with the people you dance the most with...it's a cruel circle. Kind of a tangent to this is that people seem to be more comfortable with people that their friends dance with, so there's almost this sine curve of comfortableness that starts with yourself and then degrades away as each person is removed by another layer of seperation.

I.E. I'm very comfortable dancing with FollowX
I'm kind of comfortable dancing with FollowY, because she dances with FollowX's boyfriend.
I'm not comfortable with FollowZ because none of my friends have ever danced with her.

There's something of a heriarchy that builds off this phenomenon, that I've noticed. That is, if a stranger walks up to FollowX just as I walk up to her (remember she's someone I'm comfortable with) the stranger will often defer away, or be more hesitant in asking her to dance.

The psych major in me to my apparent self-confidence vs the anxiety of a stranger asking FollowX to dance. He's anxious, I'm not, so he instinctively interprets that as a rank issue.

I'm not sure if it works like that for girls. They seem to be less prone to "Alpha-male" fiascos. :)

The kind of interesting thing that I draw from this is that the really good dancers may be as hesitant to ask new people to dance because it's outside their comfort zone as much, if not more so, than because they're "too good" or afraid of being "bored."
 
Jmatthew said:
The psych major in me to my apparent self-confidence vs the anxiety of a stranger asking FollowX to dance. He's anxious, I'm not, so he instinctively interprets that as a rank issue.

Welcome to DF, Jmattew :D ! So far, your comment comes closest to what I was refering to originally. Thankyou.

Jmatthew said:
I'm not sure if it works like that for girls. They seem to be less prone to "Alpha-male" fiascos. :)

You bet it does (work like this for us girls)!

Jmatthew said:
The kind of interesting thing that I draw from this is that the really good dancers may be as hesitant to ask new people to dance because it's outside their comfort zone as much, if not more so, than because they're "too good" or afraid of being "bored."

....or afraid to threaten their own hierarchal status by looking less proficient.......?
 
borikensalsero said:
Some people are so used to other people style, or only know a given schools moves, that they really can't dance with anyone else. They excel at stepping around with the same people, but when they are taken out of their environment they completely melt/fall apart........... it isn't that they aren't good, they just don't know how to adapt.

Adaptation is the way to survival. We are still driven by our instinct to find our own place in this ever-evolving world. Even in the world of salsa.........
 
passion said:
Dancing with the same person for the majority of the time is fine, but I feel that in order to grow and improve and have incredible dancing experiences, one must venture out into the unknown or less familiar and try out a new partner. Because whether you stand and fly with a new partner or fall, your favorites will always be there to pick you up and give you an wonderful experience.

I am with you 200% there, Passion :D ! I really couldn't stress this point enough to everyone.....!

So let's laminate this statement of yours shall we...... :wink: ? And post it around the places...... 8) !
 
If only everyone realized that... :?

We'll just have to start spreading the word ourselves and hope that it spreads from there! :wink:
 

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