Holistic Health Thread

[pygmalion]

Nope. Not medicine. Health. (I know at least one DFer who'd be very uncomfortable if we exchanged medical advice.)


But ... what kinds of things do you do on a day to day basis to stay healthy without intervention from western medicine?

Here are some things my friends recommended to me.


1) Taking apple cider vinegar every day
2) Taking low dose aspirin
3) Taking garlic supplements
4) Cutting back on or eliminating caffeine
5) Getting rid of any artificial sweeteners and using Stevia instead, but only as needed
6) Staying better hydrated
7) Taking more breaks and walking outside every day
8.) Praying and meditating
9) Taking fish oil


Good ideas? Bad ideas? Have you tried any of these? What were your results? Have you tried anything else? What sorts of alternative therapies do you use? Massage? Aromatherapy? Rolfing? Smoothies? Dietary supplements? Transcendental meditation? Lots of other stuff?


Bottom line. What do you do to get or stay healthy without having to visit an MD?

Here's the first post of this thread. This is the intent -- to exchange ideas about how to get and/or stay healthy without medical intervention.

Really and truly, technical analysis of scholarly articles is not the goal, here, for (what I perceive to be) the vast majority of people who participate in this thread. The endless circles of "prove it to me" are quite tiresome, especially when one considers that (based on conversations in a few threads I can remember) DF is disproportionately populated with scientists, engineers, and academics. DF members can largely read technical material and draw their own conclusions, IMO. Those of us who can't analyze data usually know how to ask for help or clarification, also IMO.

And back to the intended purpose of the thread.

Yes. I found fluoride-free toothpaste at Tom's of Maine. Ouchie. Way more expensive than Crest, but definitely worth it, IMO. How much toothpaste does one use anyway?

And a (most likely controversial) question.

What's wrong with canola oil? All I know is that it's made from rapeseed and that every natural foodie person I know thinks it's spawn of the devil. I just don't know why. I've googled, of course, and the online postings I've seen are so vitriolic, in some cases, that I can't take them seriously. What gives with the hatred of canola? Is it the GMO connection? Is it poison? (Something else I've heard.) What gives?

Also, where does one find organic vegetable oils?

 

[pygmalion]

I guess I should add, does organic veggie oil matter? Can one just go to the supermarket and buy extra virgin olive oil? Where is olive oil grown, harvested and extracted? Is it non-GMO by definition, kinda the way that corn oil in the US is almost guaranteed to be GMO?

No idea. If anybody has info, please share.

 

[fascination]

I think that it is fair for members to note, when there is a possible downside to taking a holistic approach....example, I know lots of folks who came from countries without flouride in the water who have dreadful teeth, and I can tell you that 9 months of it for my son who had perfect teeth when he left for Africa(his dentist had to sign off on that), amounted in 4 root canals and two crowns from just 9 months without it(again, with other factors also influenced that..which will be minimized or maximized depending upon the leanings of each person reading this....but it was his truth)....I think it is fair to note that evidence provided may or may not be fully sound and that there can be consequences both positive or negative to any health choice....those are important considerations.... it bears merit to mention the potential consequences of various holistic choices as well...just as you might caution an aspiring vegetarian to make sure they get enough B12 or you would mention the consequences possible in not vaccinating along with the dangers of vaccinating...

As regards not filling the thread with pages of debate, I think that mutually respectful responses and resisting temptations to engage in further rounds if one finds it futile or annoying is always a wise option...

 

[pygmalion]

I totally agree, fasc.

DFers can and should post whatever they want (within DF guidelines.) And the DFers reading their posts have the right to read, ignore, or respond as they choose, as long as they stay within DF guidelines.

And, as I have been reminded countless times, the intent of the OP counts, when it comes to the direction of a thread.

 

[fascination]

sure....the intent is very important...and arguing for the sake of arguing takes the thread off topic....offering considerations for caution and then moving on would be appropriate....the staff will certainly endeavor to help bring attention to when a thread has adopted the first scenario rather than the second....hopefully, now that those concerns have been expressed, your new questions can be picked up and responded to by persons who have some insight in that regard

 

[DL]

What's wrong with canola oil? All I know is that it's made from rapeseed and that every natural foodie person I know thinks it's spawn of the devil. I just don't know why. I've googled, of course, and the online postings I've seen are so vitriolic, in some cases, that I can't take them seriously. What gives with the hatred of canola? Is it the GMO connection? Is it poison? (Something else I've heard.) What gives?

Snopes did a piece on this:
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/canola.asp

It includes a mention that traditional cross-breeding was used, not (laboratory genetic modification.

 

[samina]

The endless circles of "prove it to me" are quite tiresome...

i agree with both your & fasc's comments on the subject.

I found fluoride-free toothpaste at Tom's of Maine. Ouchie. Way more expensive than Crest, but definitely worth it, IMO. How much toothpaste does one use anyway?

toothpaste is one of our assumed cultural norms. who decided this was the optimal way to care for our teeth, anyhow? there are (unfluoridated) indigenous peoples around the world who have beautiful teeth and who never used the stuff.

while i have deep sympathy for fasc's son, there are other reasons he may have come back from africa with his dental challenges.

anyway, i no longer use toothpaste. have been experimenting with a variety of other brushing agents for the last couple years, which i find leave my teeth & mouth feeling cleaner than toothpastes ever did. and in my personal assessment, they are also alkalizing, mineralizing, and invigorating.

 

[pygmalion]

Yep. Cultural norms can be quite powerful, can't they?

Reminds me of the first time I went to West Africa and was baffled when I realized that the people there do not drink milk at all. Period. I couldn't imagine generations of little kids growing up without calcium to help build strong bones and teeth. As it turns out, people there eats greens -- lots of them, the dark, leafy kind that are full of calcium. And pregnant women chew some stone-looking thing (I don't know the name in English) that's pretty close to 100% minerals, with most of it calcium.

My prejudices about what people "should" do were based on the culture in which I was raised. Maybe people DO need calcium. That doesn't necessarily mean they need cow's milk. Hmm.


I'll look into alternative tooth-cleaning methods. In the meanwhile, I'll check into Tom's. I'm pretty sure Sprouts (a farmer's market and health food store in the West and Southwest) has it.

 

[samina]

What's wrong with canola oil?...Also, where does one find organic vegetable oils?...I guess I should add, does organic veggie oil matter?

i think this subject, like a lot of those that come up in this thread, touches upon things that are controversial because they challenge a lot of the assumptions we have, and many of those assumptions have been powerfully guided by corporate and other, well-funded interests. the "healthfulness" of unsaturated fats is a great example. corn, soy and canola oils are huge cash crops, and people have been aggressively sold the notion that they are the healthiest oils. my research, experience and observations suggest otherwise, and there are credible leaders in the health & medical fields that would agree.

i prefer saturated fats, which are more stable and do not oxidize as readily as unsaturated fats, which leave a sticky "plaque" behind when they oxidize (think, "your arteries"). i remember growing up and my parents' vegetable oil bottles always developed that stickiness around them and i wondered what it was caused by -- now i know.

the cold-pressed olive and coconut oils and grass-fed butter i use never do that. they are more stable fats and do not oxidize so quickly. and, to be simplistic about it for a moment, they feel good & natural in my body. if only people would start to pay more attention to that basic common sense and be less intimidated by the complexity of the pseudoscientific ramblings those that benefit very keenly by sales of the unsaturateds...

as for canola...i understand that it was a hybridized genetic modification as opposed to a "GMO" that inserts genes of another species/chemical/bacteria etc. into the genetic structure. however, it is a supremely denatured creation... rapeseed was simply not designed by nature for human consumption, at least at the level it is now being consumed. it was modified for sales & money, and marketed as "healthy" to generate same.

buyer...eater... beware, IMV.

 

[samina]

and yes, P, you can buy quality oils at the grocery store these days. look for cold-pressed. if you add organic to the list of criteria, hope your pockets are deep.

for butter...grass-fed cows. clarify the butter to remove the milk solids & make "ghee", if you like. it doesn't need to be refrigerated and it's a stable, highly desirable fat, in my book.

 

[samina]

Yep. Cultural norms can be quite powerful, can't they?

Reminds me of the first time I went to West Africa and was baffled when I realized that the people there do not drink milk at all. Period. I couldn't imagine generations of little kids growing up without calcium to help build strong bones and teeth.

again, our common assumption is that "milk makes a body strong". that was a marketed (and profitable) concept.

to strengthen bones & teeth, milk is nowhere on my list of valuable foods for that.

 

[pygmalion]

Wow. That is so powerful!

I could say more and probably will, after I get back from running a billion errands. What I can say briefly is that, during my cleanse this summer, I have started paying closer attention to how I feel, after I eat whatever I eat. I can tell in very short order whether what I just ate is good for me or not. My body tells me. Bottom line is I just haven't been listening, all these years. I know I may sound crazy, but it's true. Good food makes me feel good. Yucky food makes me feel yucky. Almost immediately.

Off to store to look for expeller-pressed olive oil.

 

[samina]

there ya go. enjoy.

if you have never tried good coconut oil, though, be sure to give that a try. it's wonderful. and you can use on your skin, face, hair...everything.

it's also known as a thyroid stimulant. which, having said that, i'm quite sure DL will be all over it. :tongue:

 

[pygmalion]

Do you have any documented scientific evidence for that claim, sister? lol.


A couple more things, before I go (DS will be at the airport in six hours and have no food, I haven't taken out the trash, and I have to go to work for about an hour ...)

Here's one -- a cleansing urban legend which I'm not sure if I believe


A lady went on a fairly long, fairly intensive cleanse. When she broke her fast, she and her friends went out to celebrate. They had pepperoni pizza. She died from the toxins in the pizza. Too much of a shock to her ultra-clean system.

I read that, but didn't believe it until this happened to me.

I went on a diet (not really a cleanse -- just Weight Watchers) eating mostly fruit, veg, lean protein and whole grains for about six months. At the end of six months, I took DS to McDonald's and decided to "treat" myself to a Big Mac and fries, to celebrate. By the time the last fry was in my mouth, I was so sick that I could barely make it to the car. I drove to several pharmacies, looking for ipecac syrup (which is not sold OTC in the US anymore, btw.) I was desperate to get that crap food out of my system. I was so sick that I was willing to induce vomiting rather than process it through my body. I cannot tell you how awful it was.

Seriously. I have no idea about the lady who supposedly died from pizza, but I know from my own experience that it's possible to get used to eating food that makes you feel bad. You never realize that you felt bad until you choose to eat foods that make you feel good. Scouts' honor.

 

[samina]

i consider this issue of fats to be majorly relevant to the subject of holistic health, so i've decided to take the time to pull out a well-annotated book from my library to offer up some quotes and references for further study. the book is "The Enzyme Cure" by Lita Lee, an enzyme therapist.

the book discusses how to correct enzyme deficiencies. i picked it up in early 2000 when i was going through a rather traumatic health challenge...which reversed itself when, after reading the book, i eliminated processed soy from my diet and added coconut oil. the author makes points i have since heard from numerous other sources. a good online source of information about fats & cholesterol is dr. mercola's site. but from this book: (i bolded font for easier reading)

Most people are aware of the detrimental health effects of hydrogenated oils, such as margarine, but few know about the toxic effects of a diet high in unsaturated oils (excluding extra virgin olive oil which is high in monounsaturated oils). In fact, Americans have been led to believe that unsaturated oils are superior to saturated fats...Here is a brief summary of the toxic effects of excess unsaturated oils, including polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs):

• Unsaturated oils can impair all body systems, mainly by inhibiting enzymes essential to digestive and metabolic processes required for health and immune protection; unsaturated oils can directly kill white blood cells. [C.J. Mead et al, Advanced Lipid Research, 127(1978 ) 165.]

• Unsaturated oils inhibit protease enzymes and this interferes with many important enzyme processes, including the digestion of dietary protein, the elimination of clots, and the healthy function of the thyroid gland. [A.J. Honour et al. "The Effect of Changes in Diet on Lipid Levels and Platelet Thrombosis Formation." British Journal of Experimental Pathology 59:4(1978 ), 390-394. C.F. Lim et al. "Influence of Nonesterified Fatty Acid and Lysolecithins on Thyroxine Binding to Thyroxine-Binding Globulin and Transthyretin." Thyroid 5:4(1995), 319-324. Stephen E. Langer, M.D., with James F. Scher. Solved: The Riddle of Illness (New Canaan, CT: Keats Publishing, 1995), 25.]

• Circulating unsaturated oils can lead to insulin resistance, and a diet high in safflower oil may cause diabetes. [S. Ikemoto et al. "High-Fat Diet-Induced Hyperglycemia." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 92(1995), 3096-3099.]

• Unsaturated oils inhibit thyroid function and vitamin E metabolism, promote age spots and clot formation, and aggravate seizures. [C.F. Lim etc, same as above.]

• Unsaturated oils are so immunosuppressive that they are now advocated as a way to prevent graft rejection. [E.A. Mascioli et al. "Medium Chain Triglycerides and Structured Lipids as Unique Nonglucose Energy Sources in Hyperalimentation," Lipids 22:6(1987), 421-423.]

• Excess unsaturated fats are cardiotoxic, especially when combined with low thyroid function. [H. Selye. "Sensitization by Corn Oil for the Production of Cardiac Necrosis," American Journal of Cardiology 23: (1969) 719-22. G. Byster and R. Vles. "Nutritional Effects of Rapeseed Oils in Pigs," Proceedings of the Fifth International Rapeseed Conference (1978 ). FZ. Meerson. Adaptive Protection of the Heart; Protecting Against Stress and Ischemic Damage (Boca Ragon, FL: CRC Press, 1991). S. Parthasarathy and S.M. Rankin. "Role of Oxidized Low-Density Lipoprotein in Atherogenesis," Progress in Lipid Research 31:2(1992), 127-143.]

• Unsaturated oils are essential for the growth of tumors, and are present in high concentrations in cancer cells. In addition, tumor cells secrete a chemical that allows unsaturated fats to be released from the tissues, thus guaranteeing their supply until the fat tissues are depleted. [Ip et al. "Requirement of Essential Fatty Acids for Mammary Tumor," Cancer Research 45(1985), 997-2001. S. Kitada, E.F. Hays, and J.F. Mead. "A Lipid-Mobilizing Factor in Serum of Tumor-Bearing Mice," Lipids 15(1989), 168-174.]

• Unsaturated fats cause both skin aging and an increased sensitivity to ultraviolet damage. Unsaturated fats and their oxidized products are involved in the process that causes ultraviolet light-induced skin cancer." [H.S. Black et al. Relation of Antioxidants and Level of Dietary Lipids to Epidermal Lipid Peroxidation and Ultraviolet Carcinogenesis, " Cancer Research 43(1985), 6254-6259.]

• The USDA has issued a recommendation against the use of soy oil in infant formulas because of studies showing that unsaturated oils interfere with learning and behavior. Yet, soybean oil is still present in soymilk formulas. [J.M. Bell and P.K. Lundberg. "Effects of a Commercial Soy Lecithin Preparation on Development of Sensorimotor Behavior and Brain Biochemicals in the Rat." Developmental Psychology 8(1985), 59-66. D. Harman, et al. "Free Radical Theory of Againg: Effect of Dietary Fat on Central Nervous System Function," Journal of the American Geriatric Society 24(1976), 292-298. F.Z. Meerson et al. "Effect of the Antioxidant Ionol on Formatin and Persistence of a Defensive Conditioned Reflex During Peak Exercise," Bulletin of Experimental Biology and Medicine 96(1983), 70-71.]

chew on that fat for awhile. :tongue: