How Are Your Lessons Going? Thread 3

[raindance]

@Cal I enjoy reading your posts, and I really hope you continue to post here whenever you have something to add.

PNP - I thought we were all just trying to figure out what you were describing, and how that related to how we thought about mambo. Partly because we all like to type about dancing for some reason (or we wouldn't be on DF) and partly to maybe try to help you think of other ways to view the new/updated info from your lesson. I don't think anyone was trying to imply your instructor doesn't know what he is doing.

From my own limited experience with rhythm, one of my frustrations with the style 10+ years ago was that there were a number of opinions on what was "correct" technique, and not much agreement amongst the experts (coaches, judges, etc), each of whom thought they knew the "one true way." And then if the judging panel at a comp had mostly smooth or latin judges (instead of rhythm focused judges) there were even more opinions about what good rhythm dancing should look like. It all felt too loosey goosey for my liking, and it's one of the reasons I didn't end up focusing on rhythm. (Which also means I didn't study it intensely of course.) Maybe that's changed through the years since I last took lessons, maybe it hasn't, I don't know.

All I mean by that long paragraph is that would not surprise me if the most favored technique for any aspect of a rhythm dance has changed (again) over time. Perhaps back to one of the techniques I was briefly exposed to, or perhaps in a different direction.

Or perhaps there are still the same competing schools of thought, and your pro has become convinced that (some aspects of) a different way of thinking about things is currently the best way to go. Or perhaps he is just giving you another level of technique that feels foreign to you at the moment but will become second nature over time.

Others of course really love rhythm and will disagree with some or all of my comments, and that's fine, of course.

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

@Cal and @raindance

Oh my goodness - my post was not directed at either of you! In fact it was not directed at anyone specific! I KNOW that the vast majority of DF members want to be helpful and want to share their knowledge and perspectives on dancing. I mean, that’s the purpose of DF, right? And obviously I value those perspectives, or I wouldn’t ask for them.

I’m the one being arrogant and defensive here. I described my rhythm placements from OSB because I hated the thought that any DF readers who don’t know my history (and future DF readers who don’t know me at all) would think badly of my teacher. Despite how much I love words, I often have difficulty describing dance-related things.

I sincerely apologize for making anyone feel attacked or insulted or that their opinions and suggestions weren’t welcome and valuable. And I sincerely hope that everyone will continue to share their opinions and suggestions.

I was being an obnoxious, arrogant, unlikable cow, and I’m sorry.

 

[joy]

Suggesting the use of an additional source of information for potential clarification about Mambo is not an implication that your Pro's teaching skills are in question.

But, I hear your message loud and clear. It’s rather arrogant for a non-winner like me to weigh in on a technique-related topic at all. Rest assured, I’ll go back to the cheap seats where I belong.

Oh Cal, I enjoy you.

The point of the internet is to have randos opinionating. And if someone puts something out on the internet, then it's a waste of energy to get mad at their opining.

---

Anyways so I had a WCS lesson with a champion recently and he was telling me that I was rolling down my feet too much and I was like WTF, everyone has been telling me to roll my feet. But he said, I was looking prancey.

A non-experienced person can think flat foot and barely rolling is the same. But they're not.
He just wanted me to articulate a lot less. Foot is still engaged, foot is still rolling, but it's soooo tiny.

If you look though, you can still tell the difference between a flat foot and an articulated foot.
It's just a lot more internal.

I'm guessing the same thing is for Mambo.

My credentials: A 2nd place Jack and Jill Mambo placement, despite not much training in Rhythm, beating much better ams who place well in legit comps like Emerald, but I did better because I was paired with an amazing Pro. And Arun. I beat Arun in that Mambo Jack and Jill. Just gonna name drop. LOL.

Prob the only time I will beat Arun in a dance competition and I'm still savoring it.

 

[fiesta0618]

It’s rather arrogant for a non-winner like me to weigh in on a technique-related topic at all. Rest assured, I’ll go back to the cheap seats where I belong.

You're good, Cal. I cannot ever recall a conversation where I thought, "Man, Cal really doesn't know what they're talking about." Quite the opposite, in fact--your encyclopedic study of the syllabus, including BOTH roles, gives you a special insight that makes your input pretty valuable.

I (and others) may argue with you now and then, but so what? For me, at least, discussion is not an exercise that ends with a winner & loser, and there are no qualifications to enter. The only conversational sins, in my book, are bad faith and arrogance, and you have neither! Despite your self-branding in the quote.

 

[raindance]

@Cal and @raindance

Oh my goodness - my post was not directed at either of you! In fact it was not directed at anyone specific! I KNOW that the vast majority of DF members want to be helpful and want to share their knowledge and perspectives on dancing. I mean, that’s the purpose of DF, right? And obviously I value those perspectives, or I wouldn’t ask for them.

I’m the one being arrogant and defensive here. I described my rhythm placements from OSB because I hated the thought that any DF readers who don’t know my history (and future DF readers who don’t know me at all) would think badly of my teacher. Despite how much I love words, I often have difficulty describing dance-related things.

I sincerely apologize for making anyone feel attacked or insulted or that their opinions and suggestions weren’t welcome and valuable. And I sincerely hope that everyone will continue to share their opinions and suggestions.

I was being an obnoxious, arrogant, unlikable cow, and I’m sorry.

You were also fine and not unlikable or anything else.

I would bet if these conversations happened in person the misunderstandings would not have occurred, or would have been identified and smoothed over much more quickly (quizzical look, followup question, hearing tone of voice, etc etc). Plus we could have each tried to explain the dance stuff with actual dancing instead of typing about dancing.

If this line "Also, if any of you are thinking my Pro is an idiot" had maybe been "if anyone reading this is thinking my pro had been an idiot" it might have helped a little. Or maybe not. Online misunderstandings happen.

Maybe someday Cal and PNP will meet in person - I would guess they would like each other just fine and have fun comparing notes on whatever topics they felt like discussing.

Hugs all around.

 

[Pryn]

OK, reading back over the way I described the way I learned mambo, I realized it sounds totally messed up (and totally incorrect), so let me back up and try to explain better. This is mambo. That means OF COURSE the emphasis is on count two. The first step is on count two. The basic count/beat is “TWO-three-four-[pause]-TWO-three-four-[pause].” (Or instead of a pause, you could say “one” on that beat, as I do.)

But in order to teach me to articulate my feet while dancing mambo such that my toes and heels have distinct separate movements, Pro would count out loud and sometimes vocally emphasize the “one” - NOT changing the rhythm or emphasis of the step itself - just reminding me that “four” is toe and “one” is heel, and that I should keep them separate.

I think that makes sense to me. This feels kinda like it was danced as a "slow" as described by Greybeard.

And, I have the utmost respect for your teacher @ProgressNotPerfection. I hope my remark was not taken in away to suggest he was anything other than a good ballroom teacher. I was just trying to reconcile in my head what he could have meant by saying more flat-footed.

I dance salsa and mambo with no rules so I style with slows, step holds, taps (oh so many taps), heels, stomps, hops, etc...

It is almost time for me to spread my wings to Bolero and mambo - and maybe then I'll have more notes to compare, but for now my Cha-Cha needs prayer - so it's my priority during lessons.

 

[Cal]

I should not have been so caustic in my prior post. Let me try again.

@ProgressNotPerfection: you have wonderful dance accomplishments and you deserve to be proud of them. Because you have a great deal of talent, it’s very likely that your Pro is able to use much more sophisticated teaching methods with you, than pros and coaches have been able to use with me. If there is an upcoming switch-up with your Mambo, your Pro no doubt is confident, and justifiably so, that you will absorb and master it.

With what I hope is softer-sounding than in my prior post: my intent is to follow the advice of Candide, and, instead of focusing on other people’s dance dilemmas, I will go out and cultivate my own garden.

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

If this line "Also, if any of you are thinking my Pro is an idiot" had maybe been "if anyone reading this is thinking my pro had been an idiot" it might have helped a little.

Absolutely! Also, if “let me remind you” had been “let me defend my teacher by saying….”

The only conversational sins, in my book, are bad faith and arrogance

What’s even worse is unwarranted arrogance, such as a bronze student dancer who talks as if she thinks she’s all that & a bag of chips.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

 

[joy]

With what I hope is softer-sounding than in my prior post: my intent is to follow the advice of Candide, and, instead of focusing on other people’s dance dilemmas, I will go out and cultivate my own garden.

Baagggh, I have enough time to cultivate my own garden, and occasionally peek at other people's yards!

 

[joy]

On topic wise, I had 5 lessons last week (1 was WCS).

Still working on the same stuff: getting stronger, and eveything is internal. The idea of engaging lats without engaging shoulders is SO hard.

Fiesta gave me an exercise for the erector muscles? which tires me out in a few reps.

The more I do this the more I realize it's relaxation, effortless movement. Only using the muscles you need and not gripping unnecessarily.

 

[Tracy]

So I don't think it's "the way it's done now" as in a trend. I think you are advancing and need to upgrade. The toe and heel should not be separate motions like they would be in tap dancing for instance (sorry, I'm a tap dancer too). The ball touches the ground first then then heel rolls down quickly to appear as a flat step. Then on the 1, a body action will happen, initiated by the knee straightening for instance. Motion is continuous somewhere in the body at all times. This will just make your dancing look more cohesive and fluid.

 

[Tracy]

At my last round of lessons (I am a travel student so my lessons are clustered together instead of regular intervals), we finished my Best of the Best choreo. We can't actually do it yet, but it is figured out. I'm excited!

 

[j_alexandra]

Watching Teach figure out why I'm doing wrong whatever it is that I'm doing wrong is so fascinating. He gets this look on his face, and I think it must be like watching Michelangelo sculpt...

I joke about how I frustrate him, but hey, he hasn't throttled me in days.

ETA: I should probably not say such things about him on the internet, which never, ever forgets anything and has no sense of humor.