how are your lessons going? thread II

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Technical smooth lesson today and I felt like I had a major breakthru.

I arrived, before I drive!
"And.... 1."
And my waltz looks so different, and it felt different. Like there was more time.

<snip>

And so for the first time today I danced a waltz with actual arriving and driving. And it was beautiful.

So happy.
How wonderful for you!!!! I remember this lesson well. The world shifted on its axis and I stood there gobsmacked by the goodness of this brave new world until Teach snapped me out of it and made me get back to paying attention.

Happy for you!
 
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No, you shouldn't be discouraged re: me and my fuzzy timing. My issue with timing is in my Role-Switch choreography. There are several places where we have to replace a Slow with two Quicks, or use a syncopation, in order to complete the Switch - and even though my feet often do the planned thing, the count that comes out of my mouth doesn't match. And the result can leave me standing on one foot wondering how I managed to end a phrase on a seven.

But I'll get it sorted out.
As a role-switching aside: have you seen the video of Bobbie Irvine and Janet Gleave, back in the day, doing a role-switch demonstration at, I think, Blackpool? I watch it every now and then and learn something new every time. It's effing masterful.
 
How wonderful for you!!!! I remember this lesson well. The world shifted on its axis and I stood there gobsmacked by the goodness of this brave new world until Teach snapped me out of it and made me get back to paying attention.

Happy for you!
Thank you! I feel like it needs cake and champagne. It's such a huge revelation and it's something that people have been telling me for a while now. I was watching the waltz video from Saturday and the one from my last comp and it just looks different.
 
As a role-switching aside: have you seen the video of Bobbie Irvine and Janet Gleave, back in the day, doing a role-switch demonstration at, I think, Blackpool? I watch it every now and then and learn something new every time. It's effing masterful.
Yes!!!! Jaw-dropping!!! In fact, @Cal was the one who first introduced me to it! In-damn-credible.
 
Lesson with StandardPro on Monday: he taught me the second “phrase” of the “sentence” we’ve been working on in waltz. (I think that means we now have steps for the short wall in addition to the long wall.) I know it includes a hesitation change and an outside change, plus a couple chassés from different angles, but I didn’t write down the specific figure names this time.

I still really like Standard. Working in closed position with all the different points of contact just feels RIGHT to me, even though it is much trickier having to learn all the figures with their numerous moving parts in conjunction with a connected-and-also-moving partner.

Oh! Turns out the head position/neck extension is different from the way I’ve been shown in smooth! Regular Pro frequently reaches behind my head to grasp the base of my skull and pull my head further away from him, and reminds me to extend my neck more (but without “breaking” my neck). StandardPro told me not to do that, and instead to tuck my chin DOWN, and think of my chin as pushing my neck & head back so that my spine-neck-head are all in a very straight line. He said the body is what creates all the (glorious) shapes, not the neck. I asked about the difference wrt smooth, & he said in smooth there’s a lot more freedom, so what Pro has been teaching me is not *wrong* - it just can’t work the same way in standard.
 
Lesson with Pro yesterday and outside visiting coach. Pro wanted us to work on swing (ughhhhhh), and told the coach that if there were any remaining time, we’d also do cha cha. So we danced about 90 seconds of swing - I honestly tried to enjoy it (or at least act like I was enjoying it) - but although my basic pendulum motion has improved, I still missed several of his leads and therefore messed up several steps. The coach interrupted us to say, “now do a cha cha. I want to see how you dance when it’s a style you LIKE.” It went much better than swing; and in fact, my movement overall was much better than usual.

The coach said cha cha is better because it’s clear that I know when to bend and straighten my legs, and in swing, it’s clear that I DON’T know. E.g., in swing, when I return my weight to my LF at the end of the rock step, I haven’t been straightening my left knee. Pro said he’s never realized that since he can’t see it from his position as my partner. So I did a few basics that way with the coach, prompting Pro to blurt out in surprise, “damn that’s good!” The coach shrugged & said, “that’s the only thing I think that has to be fixed. In general you have a really good look, but that one thing makes it look a little bit messy, and you know something is wrong so you aren’t confident with it and don’t enjoy it.”

We then worked on a new way for me to think about body movement. Instead of focusing on hips, “imagine that you’re pulling on a very tight pair of jeans. When it’s time to zip them up, you pull in and lift up from inside your body as you pull up the zipper - yes! Exactly like that!” For the rest of the lesson, each step involved “pulling up my zipper” before every transfer of weight from one leg to the other. It’s fascinating what a difference it makes, but I can tell it’s going to take a LOT of time and effort to make that happen automatically. As the coach said, “it’s simple, but not easy.”

Another extremely helpful tip was an exercise where I rotated my arms & shoulders so that my elbow pits (antecubital fossae) and palms were facing completely out away from my body, causing my lats to lie flat and down; then rotated JUST my forearms & wrists back in toward my body, allowing my arms to move without changing the position of my lats or shoulders. (I was showing a tendency to “pull up my zipper” with my entire upper body, including my shoulders, which is of course a no-no.)

Other fun things: during the introductory few minutes, the coach began with an assessment of my & Pro’s relative heights & said we look very good together (that’s not really a compliment, because height isn’t something I have control over, but it’s nice to hear anyway). He asked me, “have you danced before?” I said no, no dancing, no sports, nothing before this. He raised his eyebrows & said, “huh...but you have the body of a dancer.” Pro nodded & said, “she practices a LOT,” as I simultaneously nodded & said, “I practice a LOT.” Towards the end of the lesson, I made some comment about something being difficult right now because I’m still a beginner. The coach shook his head & said, “I can’t tell you’re a beginner. You understand what I’m showing you. You understand how it will make such a difference. Beginners wouldn’t understand that.”

As with the prior visiting coach from this summer, I feel like I’ve been given important concepts that will be incorporated into all my future dancing. (Unfortunately, neither coach had a magic wand to grant my wish of “instant expertise,” lol.)
 
I made some comment about something being difficult right now because I’m still a beginner. The coach shook his head & said, “I can’t tell you’re a beginner. You understand what I’m showing you. You understand how it will make such a difference. Beginners wouldn’t understand that.”
Yeah I don't think you're a beginner either. You're intermediate bronze.
 
Oh! Turns out the head position/neck extension is different from the way I’ve been shown in smooth! Regular Pro frequently reaches behind my head to grasp the base of my skull and pull my head further away from him, and reminds me to extend my neck more (but without “breaking” my neck). StandardPro told me not to do that, and instead to tuck my chin DOWN, and think of my chin as pushing my neck & head back so that my spine-neck-head are all in a very straight line. He said the body is what creates all the (glorious) shapes, not the neck.
I'm going to take a much stronger and more contentious stance than I usually would: I think RegularPro is wrong about this.

This is unusual for me. I generally give great deference to the opinions someone who has lifelong and professional expertise, especially when they earn their bread by transferring their skills to others. But I hold the above opinion because I've seen where Pro's instinct comes from, and I've seen several cases where it is a clear mistake.

My own coach used to adjust my posture via the skull-pull. It was viciously uncomfortable and impossible for me to maintain. Why did she do it, and why did it hurt so bad?

She did it because it works for her--faced with an uncomfortable neck position, she is capable of adjusting her upper back to ease the tension. And she has been dancing so long, and started so young, that she has forgotten what it is like to not have good spine mobility. Her posture muscles are as familiar and comfortable to her as the muscles in her hands.

It hurt me because I, by contrast, could not adjust my upper back, and had no awareness of those muscles even if I could. So had no option but to grit my teeth and try to survive through a painful neck position.

In short, I think any approach to posture that pays attention to the neck is wrong. Because StandardPro is right--it is the body that is responsible for the extension. Skilled and experienced dancers may understand this implicitly, and respond properly to an adjustment applied to the neck. Early and middle learners will not, basically ever.

I asked about the difference wrt smooth, & he said in smooth there’s a lot more freedom, so what Pro has been teaching me is not *wrong* - it just can’t work the same way in standard.
This, to me, smacks of diplomacy. Posture is not significantly different between Standard and Smooth. But StandardPro has no interest in undercutting RegularPro.
 
My own coach used to adjust my posture via the skull-pull. It was viciously uncomfortable and impossible for me to maintain. Why did she do it, and why did it hurt so bad?

She did it because it works for her--faced with an uncomfortable neck position, she is capable of adjusting her upper back to ease the tension. And she has been dancing so long, and started so young, that she has forgotten what it is like to not have good spine mobility. Her posture muscles are as familiar and comfortable to her as the muscles in her hands.
This is exactly what I'm struggling with now in regard to posture and how my pro typically corrects. I will introduce the chin tuck idea to her tonight. Wish me luck!
 
oof, so i wrote a novel here, feel free to skip. I just needed to get it out.

good but intense lessons the last couple of days. last night, reviewed videos from the mini-competition event. feedback was not anything unexpected - I haven't competed or performed since February, so the dancing was meh. I maybe retained about 30% of the stuff we've been working on over the last few months. I was frustrated about some pieces that i have practiced over and over again but which don't happen when i perform or compete.

We worked on a small bit in my cha cha, and it was definitely frustrating to get things to go the way it needed to. i've been told for years that i need to use less energy, i have almost too much power so everything looks like i'm working hard. I have been trying to fix that, with not a lot of success. i think it clicked last night (goodness, i'm hoping it did) on how i can improve this. pro said to push with standing leg even more so that the steps really moved and when i (thought) i did that, he called out that i tensed all my muscles and pushed from my whole body, not just my standing leg. So i had to refocus my energy to just my legs. It sounds very new-agey to refocus my energy, but it's the only way i could change anything.

actually what i had to think about was how i move when i'm messing around in my kitchen in my socks - because i don't use my whole body when i'm just being silly. so that's how i need to dance. i need to be ok with feeling like i'm not working hard but that my energy is focused on pushing from my feet and ONLY THERE. not the whole body. It's also something that secret pro said we need to start working on in my lesson on monday - that the things that worked better in my videos were the bits in swing where we focused on where the energy/accent of the step or movement is supposed to be going.

The really intense part of the lesson with pro was the discussion around stuff not sticking in muscle memory, despite the fact that i know what i need to do in places and i have video proof of me practicing it correctly for months (i went through most of my old videos to clear out my phone this weekend and organize it, and found videos of me doing the cha cha bits the right way - from back in august, and then again over the last month and a half). so he said I need to stop focusing on mechanics when i perform and compete and instead focus on the idea of each movement and step. i can make sure my mechanics are good in practices and lessons, but i need to use those mechanics to get along the idea. I know i've heard this before, but again, it seemed to click this time. I have to "flip the switch" in my head when i perform or compete so that i don't think of mechanics or worrying about being on time but instead focus on the idea of the movement.

Not sure why it felt so intense to me - maybe because i'm scared of not being able to do this! of getting stuck and not improving in performances and competitions. and part of me was like "oh hey sign me up for that performance thing this friday that i passed on previously so i can immediately try it". maybe it just felt intense because it's outside of my "comfort zone."

secret pro also had feedback on the videos - now i have to dance with music on the lessons with her when we work on pieces of routines. got some good feedback on how to show where the movement is coming from, which is something i've had feedback on from pro and secret pro, and when i try to implement it, it hasn't been consistent at all. We worked on applying the feedback with the bolero beginning - i'm hoping to review that in my next lesson with pro. It goes along with the same concept of showing the idea of the step and the energy/accent for each movement/step.

secret pro and i talked about how we're on the right track, though - because we fixed the foundation and mechanics quite a bit, so next step is to add on this energy focusing. if we tried to add the focus on energy and idea on top of my crappy mechanics, it would have gone sideways quick. i think pro was trying to say the same thing, that i need to trust my body to do the mechanics more. i never did previously because it wasn't good enough and i knew it - but it's better now, i can see the difference in drills and in specific bits. so now i just need to get past this fear(?) of the mechanics NOT being good enough and refocus on the idea of the steps, the idea of how i get into/the transitions between steps. i will still need technique and mechanics but that needs to be not at the forefront of my brain. trust my body now. (i think i've repeated myself here but... i needed to work this out)

also need to review how i visualize routines again, because i am still not visualizing transitions between steps - nothing is consistently continuous.
 
We worked on a small bit in my cha cha, and it was definitely frustrating to get things to go the way it needed to. i've been told for years that i need to use less energy, i have almost too much power so everything looks like i'm working hard. I have been trying to fix that, with not a lot of success. i think it clicked last night (goodness, i'm hoping it did) on how i can improve this. pro said to push with standing leg even more so that the steps really moved and when i (thought) i did that, he called out that i tensed all my muscles and pushed from my whole body, not just my standing leg. So i had to refocus my energy to just my legs. It sounds very new-agey to refocus my energy, but it's the only way i could change anything.
Oh, the eternal conundrum! Do less, but do it efficiently, for a stronger movement overall. I remember first being told this in martial arts lessons, then again as a sprinter.

Very exciting that it is starting to click for you. I still need to be told "DO LESS, fiesta!" at least once a month.
 
Oh, the eternal conundrum! Do less, but do it efficiently, for a stronger movement overall. I remember first being told this in martial arts lessons, then again as a sprinter.

Very exciting that it is starting to click for you. I still need to be told "DO LESS, fiesta!" at least once a month.
Good lord, i hope it's beginning to click. I want it to click SO BADLY.
 
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