How are your practices going?

[Pryn]

SQQ and QQS are the patterns I've been taught for the Tango rocks. Based on how he brings together the figures throughout the dance, we use both.

 

[vit]

SQQ and QQS are the patterns I've been taught for the Tango rocks. Based on how he brings together the figures throughout the dance, we use both.

I'm not familiar with american tango, checked one video. Rhythmical combinations don't look that different than in int. tango. First thing that is usually taught on beginner classes is two walk steps and progressive link to promenade (SSQQ), followed by closed promenade (SQQS) - which was also strange to me. Or one walk step + rock turn (again SSQQ SQQS). It looks just like an adaptation of basic steps from quickstep/social foxtrot to tango music

And then, 5-6 decades later, similar happened in Angola and they started dancing kizomba (now called "traditional kizomba" so one would think it is a dance something like 5+ centuries old, which is not the case). And similar to ballroom, only older people are still dancing it there ...

 

[Warren J. Dew]

Well, SSQQ in quickstep doesn't fit 4/4 timing of the music either. Probably a consequence of adjusting a box step to different music

Box step? Closest thing I know is the (full) reverse turn, whose SQQSQQ does fit in the 4/4 timing?

That SQQS is more common may be a consequence of quickstep being a jazz age dance, where the style seems to have been more friendly to dancing across the bar. Tango was developed decades earlier, perhaps before this aesthetic was dominant.

 

[lucia_l]

I thought american tango basic was SSQQS. One of the timing changes I'm thinking of changes into SSSQQ. (Basically changing the last 2 beats on me when my feet just want to repeat the dance timing we did last. )

Forgive any confusion...

When I google "Tango bronze level timings", the AI summary gives:

"In Bronze level Tango, the timings are typically represented as Slow, Slow, Quick, Quick, Slow (SSQQS), according to Lake Shore Dance Academy. This means two beats are used for each slow step and one beat for each quick step. Tango music is usually in 4/4 time, meaning there are four beats per measure, says Ultimate Tango School of Dance. However, the basic step is usually danced over 8 counts (two measures).
"

And instructional pages do pretty consistently describe the tango basic as 5 steps over 8 beats-- and those steps are Slow, Slow, quick, quick, Slow. (So '12', '34', '1','2', '34').

USA dance's syllabus definitely describes the SSQQS timing for the forward basic. Tango walks are "all slows". You can do a bunch in a row, so it could be "Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow".

1.2.1 TANGO – American Style – BRONZE Level
1.2.1.1 Tango Walks – All Slows
1.2.1.2 Forward Basic: Closed or Outside Partner (SSQQS timing only)
1.2.1.3 Promenade turning to Left or Right (SSQQS timing only)
1.2.1.4 Corté
1.2.1.5 Open Fan
1.2.1.6 Underarm Turn to Left or Right from Open Fan
1.2.1.7 Open Fan to Same Foot Rocks – No other Same Foot figure is allowed in Bronze Tango
1.2.1.8 Right Side Fan / Outside Swivel
1.2.1.9 Rock Steps in Closed or Promenade may be danced with or without turn to left or right in
any direction
1.2.1.10 Linking actions to and from Promenade Position (Progressive Link / Promenade Link)
1.2.1.11 Left (Reverse) Turn with feet open or closed on step 3 and/or 6
1.2.1.12 Running Step, Progressive Side Step or Argentine Walks (Basic with alternative timing)
1.2.1.13 Twist Turn to Left or Right from Promenade Position (Cross Unwind)
1.2.1.14 Single Pivot from Promenade Position

You'd have to look up each to create a list of all possible timings, but SSQQS is definitely in there!

As you progress, many possible variations exist, including syncopations.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

I'm not familiar with american tango, checked one video. Rhythmical combinations don't look that different than in int. tango.

Yes.

First thing that is usually taught on beginner classes is two walk steps and progressive link to promenade (SSQQ), followed by closed promenade (SQQS) - which was also strange to me. Or one walk step + rock turn (again SSQQ SQQS).

In American, or International? I would be quite surprised about teaching a link to a beginner in American as it’s quite difficult to learn. If someone did it, I’d expect it to be for the convenience of an instructor with an International style background. That said, the first two steps of an American tango close can look like a link to an International style dancer.

Here’s a “beginner demonstration” - I assume a demonstration for beginners by instructors - that’s consistent with what Lucia describes.

If one divides it by bars, each bar is SS or QQS. Pryn’s instructor may be dividing the figures a different way, of course.

 

[lucia_l]

Timings allowed by NDCA in Bronze Smooth (circa 2020):

4/4 Time = 4 beats to a bar
TIMINGS ALLOWED:
• SSQQ(S)
• SQQ
• QQS
• QQQQ
• S(S)
• QQS
• QQ(&S) Brush Tap (allowed only in Open Fan).

The timing restrictions include

"No more than four 4 consecutive quicks. "
"No syncopations except brush point in the Open Fan (&S)."

According to the above, it is certainly possible that Pryn's teacher may be having her change do QQS followed by SSQQ appears allowed -- though the list shows SSQQ with the (S), which suggest the optional, but I think almost ubiquitous SSQQS.

That said, since Tango meter is generally 4/4, and I think 'QQS, SSQQ' by itself would need something to fill things out to hit a multiple of 4 counts. I think not hitting a multiple of 4 on some figure would make the timing 'difficult' especially for a Bronze student. (Are 'pauses' -- that is periods with no steps-- allowed in Bronze? So the last foot fall is on a "Q" and then you do somesort of body action to not just be boring? I honestly have no idea. But "Q" wait, wait, with "wait" having no motion of the foot, would be different from "Slow". After all, "Slow, Slow" is not "Quick-wait, Quick-wait" even if I often do that.... . But I think if that sort of thing is possible and in Pryn's routine, it would, indeed by "difficult" relative to lots of other timings.)

If her 'QQS, SSQQ' is really 'QQS, SSQQ(S)', it might be easier if she thinks of it that way. Or it might be easier for her to think of whatever happens on over the full 8 beats rather than trying to memorize 6 beats worth of stuff and consider whatever happens on the next two separately.

Lots of combinations are possible even in Bronze. I'm certainly not expert enough to say SSQQ by itself would never be done. Nor can I say how one would go about doing it in Bronze!

 

[Pryn]

Or it might be easier for her to think of whatever happens on over the full 8 beats rather than trying to memorize 6 beats worth of stuff and consider whatever happens on the next two separately.

This! And it's a work in progress. I'm reminded by both instructors that I've graduated past early lesson beginner and have to shift my mindset from thinking all tango steps in terms of the T-A-N-G-O mnemonic to numeric counts through 8 (and/or Quicks, &s, and slows).

 

[vit]

Box step? Closest thing I know is the (full) reverse turn, whose SQQSQQ does fit in the 4/4 timing?

So closed change in waltz is a box. Add 3/8 turn and you get natural and reverse turn in waltz, 1st half of natural or reverse chasse turn in quickstep. Add only 1/4 and you get quarter turns in quickstep. Add only 1/4 and replace closing with rock step and you get rock turn in tango ...

 

[Warren J. Dew]

So closed change in waltz is a box. Add 3/8 turn and you get natural and reverse turn in waltz, 1st half of natural or reverse chasse turn in quickstep.

Why limit yourself to the first half? The second halves are more fun, and more useful socially.

 

[AnyNameYouWish]

Being a beginner can be frustrating. I have been focusing on American Rhythm (Cha-Cha, Rumba, Swing) and I love it but there’s so much to learn and my poor hips.

I did however have some moments. I figured out with my forward progressions I wasn’t using my big toe enough on the free foot, i was using the edge with most the pressure vs putting more on the big toe and it has cleaned that up and made hip action and rotation so much easier. The other one is im starting to get using my core for hip action and rotation. Which also is making it easier. Of course i had to drill these a million times and review my instructor videos a couple hundred times.

I spent an hour trying to refine my technique, an hour of going over figures slowly then an hour of doing rounds over and over. I really felt good leaving practice today.

Happy 250th Birthday US Army, and Happy Father’s Day tomorrow for the dads.

 

[Pryn]

Being a beginner can be frustrating...

Hear, hear! I feel you. I'm so glad that you are feeling like things are connecting and getting easier.

For me, its hours of drills and working on my foot action and technique, reviewing with instructors during lessons, watching videos and it still doesn't look quite right - or my instructor tells me we can clean that up more.

Some days I question, can we? Can we, really? This is improvement. I'm sore, my hot water bill is higher, and I'm running low on Advil. (Perhaps, this should be in the whining thread. )

There are days when I walk in to the lesson proud that what I had practiced was slightly less terrible looking than in the last lesson... and walk out feeling like the all of the solo practice didn't make much of a difference.

In the end, I am trying to trust the process, lean into 'I just don't get it - yet' mindset and choosing to believe that at some point it will click - the basic techniques, not just my knee and hips.

Forgive any bitterness in my tone, Mystery Pro told me at our last practice that some of my favorite figures just weren't good yet and we'll need to invest a lot of work into them, but also that a couple figures that I dread and find hard actually looked really good and are executed well. Franchise Pro is also getting more honest with me and just saying 'No' when I butcher my steps. And, my primary instructor can always be counted on to give lots of notes. (Le sigh)

(On the bright side, it's progress that Mystery Pro and Franchise Pro are no longer giving me superfluous praise for every little thing. I guess they've figured out, it's not needed to keep me coming back for lessons.)

 

[AnyNameYouWish]

(On the bright side, it's progress that Mystery Pro and Franchise Pro are no longer giving me superfluous praise for every little thing. I guess they've figured out, it's not needed to keep me coming back for lessons.)

It took a bit before for my teacher (franchise) figured out that I actually do want her to “nit pick” things and that I want to actually learn not just be showered with praise. That I do have thick skin and can handle the criticism.

This week I have a couching and this guy is brutally honest. I can’t wait.

 

[vit]

I did however have some moments. I figured out with my forward progressions I wasn’t using my big toe enough on the free foot, i was using the edge with most the pressure vs putting more on the big toe and it has cleaned that up and made hip action and rotation so much easier. The other one is im starting to get using my core for hip action and rotation. Which also is making it easier.

Using big toes and hip action are actually not that connected. Hip action is a consequence of weight transfer and using core muscles. Straight legs, points, big toes, nicely defined steps etc are just ballroom latin styling, a signature of good ballroom dancer, they are there because they look beautifull. Using that doesn't make your hip action easier but harder. You can have a lot of hip action without that, like latin people when dancing, but in that case you won't look like ballroom latin dancer. So you should work on both, but without believing styling will help you in other areas

 

[AnyNameYouWish]

Using big toes and hip action are actually not that connected. Hip action is a consequence of weight transfer and using core muscles. Straight legs, points, big toes, nicely defined steps etc are just ballroom latin styling, a signature of good ballroom dancer, they are there because they look beautifull. Using that doesn't make your hip action easier but harder. You can have a lot of hip action without that, like latin people when dancing, but in that case you won't look like ballroom latin dancer. So you should work on both, but without believing styling will help you in other areas

Ah ok, i understand. I guess I was just getting the perception that was helping more but really all the drilling improved my balance, poise and posture was the real key. The addition of more hula hoop (as opposed to more cow bell?) as a visual tool really helped with those three. Thanks for the insight though!

 

[Pryn]

Ah ok, i understand. I guess I was just getting the perception that was helping more but really all the drilling improved my balance, poise and posture was the real key. The addition of more hula hoop (as opposed to more cow bell?) as a visual tool really helped with those three. Thanks for the insight though!

Hula hoop vs cow bell. I loved that analogy!