How do Judges become 'Big' Judges

[debmc]

Of course there are many retired dancers who would choose to judge and it never happens for them. No matter how available they make themselves. We have many pros that are complaining to the PDF right now (I laughingly call my position, not Vice-President of the PDF, but Director of Complaints Department) who feel that the criteria to become a National Judge is unfair. But I think that is more a matter of numbers than anything else... as ANYONE can register to be a judge. So the roster is quite large. How you set yourself apart from the masses is a lot of effort, and most of the groundwork was laid long before you got your first judging gig.

(One of the suggestions we have received is that National Judges need to have done PRO-AM in multiple styles instead of simply being an Open Finalist in one style. So CLEARLY in the US pro-am is a huge part of the equation. Even Shirley Ballas did pro-am.)

Out of curiosity, what is the specific criteria and groundwork Larinda?

 

[tangotime]

That's totally different here in the US where many finalists or champs also have a very busy ProAm business as well.

The UK may frown on it...but it is an excellent way for pros to pass on their knowledge and make a nice income too! Perhaps the UK needs to catch on to this!

You do not have to sell me on the idea. What you fail to realise is this; Most studios in the UK are Mom and Pop operations, and are extremely busy , working 6 and 7 days a week . Back when, many had full time jobs and only taught in the evenings and W/ends. Classes were always full ( I know, I was in the "system " ) .

Personally, I did not have a problem adapting into the system in the States. In matter of fact, it opened many doors for me, and I did get judging jobs.

On the other hand, I have good friends who came over, and never taught one single day of Amer.style and had a very successful studio ( both are FISTD in BR and Latin ) and, had competed in the UK as Amat. and did very well. They even had examiners from the UK, for medal tests ( As did I on occasion ) .
They were never asked to judge .

 

[tangotime]

But in that case, I think Peter Perzhu does as well. Unless American style doesn't "count."

Not in the UK...

 

[middy]

You do not have to sell me on the idea. What you fail to realise is this; Most studios in the UK are Mom and Pop operations, and are extremely busy , working 6 and 7 days a week . Back when, many had full time jobs and only taught in the evenings and W/ends. Classes were always full ( I know, I was in the "system " ) .

Personally, I did not have a problem adapting into the system in the States. In matter of fact, it opened many doors for me, and I did get judging jobs.

On the other hand, I have good friends who came over, and never taught one single day of Amer.style and had a very successful studio ( both are FISTD in BR and Latin ) and, had competed in the UK as Amat. and did very well. They even had examiners from the UK, for medal tests ( As did I on occasion ) .
They were never asked to judge .

Maybe it just has to do a lot with networking and previous experience. Competition organizers probably ask people whom they know have judged before and did a good job of it. If someone never judged before, why would he or she be asked to judge in the first place?

 

[Dancing Irishman]

What middy said. Larinda's earlier post makes it very clear that, once you meet the basic requirements, you have to make it known to your professional network that you're interested in and available to take judging jobs. If you haven't built that professional network, well, you're SOL (just like in any other freelance industry). Even if you haven't directly built that network, having some name recognition also helps if an organizer has to resort to looking at a list of all certified NDCA or WDC judges.

ETA: it's actually similar to how a DJ local to my college town has made himself a fixture on the collegiate scene. In addition to building a reputation for good DJ'ing (he was generally viewed favorably by folks from other teams I spoke to), he also made it known to competition organizers on the circuit that he was interested in DJ'ing other competitions, and that he worked for an affordable price (he was less expensive than the lower skill and equipment quality we could get from student DJ's for on-campus events).

 

[Dancing Irishman]

I am going to go out on a limb and say no organizer actually looks at the roster.

I was being optimistic that the roster has some value. Mostly for the sake of some small town dance instructors I've met who went through the effort of NDCA certification, though I suspect they're too close to major metro areas with more qualified/connected instructors to get the job.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

In the US pro-am is integral to the entire system. Choosing pro-am as your future career instead of judging IS a viable choice.

And a judging career IS a choice.

Judging as a career? I'm trying to imagine someone surviving on judging honoraria and nothing else, and having difficulty. I think I know what you mean, though.

And in the U.S., you end up losing days to travel as well as the actual judging days, making it more difficult than in the UK.

Just about every American style champion has done pro-am.

International style US Champions: Andre and Elena, Victor Veyrasset, Beth Knoll, Kimberly Mitchell.

International World Champions and dancers of high status: Gary and Diana, Shirley Ballas, Gianpiero, Erminio, Igor & Polina, Eddie & Vika, Nikolai & Natasha, Alain & Anik, Gherman & Iveta, Maxim Kozhevnikov, Andre and Natalie...

I could be wrong, but I thought Katusha Demidova taught pro-am students, too, back in the day.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

I am going to go out on a limb and say no organizer actually looks at the roster.

I've done it to check on the eligibility of judges, but admittedly not to find candidates.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

I'm pretty sure of that. Jonathan wouldn't be an example of a world champion who did pro-am, though, since Katusha became world champion with a different partner.

 

[Joe]

I'm pretty sure Gherman and Iveta and Slawek currently dance pro-am. Unless you mean, no world champions dance pro-am before retiring from professional competition. But in that case, I think Peter Perzhu does as well. Unless American style doesn't "count."

Well, maybe you believe the NFL when they say the Super Bowl is a world championship.

 

[tangotime]

Well, maybe you believe the NFL when they say the Super Bowl is a world championship.

Add baseball and basketball.. I guess its easier to become world champ. when everyone (other than Canada ) is excluded .

Like soccer, they should have a REAL: world series, where players represent their country.. there are enough countries in Baseball to make it interesting... PR.. Cuba.. Venezuela... Japan .. Mexico.. Panama. Oddly enough, they do this in Little league .

 

[JudeMorrigan]

Add baseball and basketball.. I guess its easier to become world champ. when everyone (other than Canada ) is excluded.

The player-bases are global even if the teams aren't. The other countries aren't being excluded. The teams are just located on a single continent for the sake of expediency.

 

[tangotime]

The player-bases are global even if the teams aren't. The other countries aren't being excluded. The teams are just located on a single continent for the sake of expediency.

So, you do not think Japan ( as the best ex. ) is excluded ?... we're speaking to Intern. teams, whose players would certainly affect the US team roster, to some degree .

And, expediency has little to do with it, in todays global, as you put it,access to travel . Geez , the NFL is already on the pathway to this very concept .

The UK has been developing Amer. style football, for many years as has Germany. And I know that, it will take some time before they can compete on the same level as the US Pro. teams ( except our Kickers )

 

[tangotime]

Actually nobody is excluded.


Armenian, Russian, Bulgarians, Americans, Kiwis, Ukranians, Canadians, English, Italians... they are all here dancing already. They don't need to fly in for it.

I'm speaking about Baseball , and answering Judes post ( wrong post for this topic ) .

 

[tangotime]

Actually the quote of yours I used was you answering Joe's post.

But yes if you are suddenly only talking about sports and NOT ballroom judges then those are the wrong posts for this topic. So perhaps the sports talk can find it's own thread.

I agree...