How do you keep students from advancing before they are read
- Thread starter KevinL
- Start date
Porfirio Landeros
New Member
I don't know how well this would work in a studio environment, but for the college group I was in, we actually had tests, and only those that had passed a test could move on to the advanced classes. This way, it didn't appear that there was prejudice or any subjective influences. The test didn't have to be an official medal test or anything, but it was just enough to cover the basics of what you expect people to know before they advance to a higher level class.
If you really care to produce quality students and not a quantity of students, you would advance dancers by instructor's permission/discretion. The student will be told by the instructor as to what level of classes would be appropriate- i.e. honest feedback not "I want to keep this student" feedback.
When i learned hustle at a dance studio, we were advanced by the instructor as we progressed. Granted we were small in numbers, but i am sure a piece of paper or simple computer spreadsheet can do the trick to track progress.
Let's step back a bit and ask why do students attend a lesson they should not.
1. The student's dancing has been praised a lot, to such a degree that he/she feels it is time to move up to the next level. Your intention might only be to encourage the student, but you are ending up with a different result.
2. The material in the appropriate class is "boring" or not of interest to the dancer. (Could this be an instructor issue ?)
3. Dancers that only like a limited number of dances - instead of expanding the dance repertoire, they move up to a new level because that is the dance they like to do.
4. Favourite dance teacher is teaching the next level class.
How could you solve it ?
** If you take another route and provide enough/variety lessons for the serious and social dancers they might attend the correct level of lessons. Obviously only the bigger studios can provide this.
** Studio competition - mini pro/am which only gives the student permission to pass to the next level. The studio owner can judge the student or a fellow instructor can judge the student. No formal process, just a peer review.
Hopefully i will get some agreements and disagreements to my ideas.....
When i learned hustle at a dance studio, we were advanced by the instructor as we progressed. Granted we were small in numbers, but i am sure a piece of paper or simple computer spreadsheet can do the trick to track progress.
Let's step back a bit and ask why do students attend a lesson they should not.
1. The student's dancing has been praised a lot, to such a degree that he/she feels it is time to move up to the next level. Your intention might only be to encourage the student, but you are ending up with a different result.
2. The material in the appropriate class is "boring" or not of interest to the dancer. (Could this be an instructor issue ?)
3. Dancers that only like a limited number of dances - instead of expanding the dance repertoire, they move up to a new level because that is the dance they like to do.
4. Favourite dance teacher is teaching the next level class.
How could you solve it ?
** If you take another route and provide enough/variety lessons for the serious and social dancers they might attend the correct level of lessons. Obviously only the bigger studios can provide this.
** Studio competition - mini pro/am which only gives the student permission to pass to the next level. The studio owner can judge the student or a fellow instructor can judge the student. No formal process, just a peer review.
Hopefully i will get some agreements and disagreements to my ideas.....
etchuck said:
Don't most studios follow a syllabus ? You could be asked to dance any 3 figures for that dance on that level with your instructor. The judge pick the three figures.
If it is a border line case or for higher levels you may want to include a few oral questions on technique or whatever you feel are basic fundamentals for the dance on that level. You can even have an advanced student interview the candidate with questions........ at least this could be less intimidating for the student.
I am not saying that my ideas are implementable, they are just ideas.
I actually like competitions for comparing ability. Since I compete 4 to 6 times a year, I know what I want to move up to.
At some point the student can make his/her own decisions on the direction they want to take his/her dance. If I take two lessons a week, go to 4 to 6 comps per year and do this for 4 years, I have just put in enough time to get a Bachalor's degree in a college major. If after 4 years I don't know enough to make my own goals, my instructor didn't help me, instead he/she made me dependant on him/her and therefore I wasted my money.
At some point the student can make his/her own decisions on the direction they want to take his/her dance. If I take two lessons a week, go to 4 to 6 comps per year and do this for 4 years, I have just put in enough time to get a Bachalor's degree in a college major. If after 4 years I don't know enough to make my own goals, my instructor didn't help me, instead he/she made me dependant on him/her and therefore I wasted my money.
Lita_rulez
New Member
Re: How do you keep students from advancing before they are
Easyest question of the day !!!
Just slap'em back to the class they belong to
KevinL said:
Easyest question of the day !!!
Just slap'em back to the class they belong to
While I'm in favor of some sort of standards for group classes, I have to say I think DanceAm has a point at least as far as private lessons. I'd have to have a whole lot of trust for a teacher in order to take their word for what my goals should be. Maybe it's because I've had so many untrustworthy and a few arrogant teachers, but when a dance teacher says that I should stay at blah-blah level, I accept it. Then I go home and analyze what the teacher's motives are. Do they have valid reasons for wanting me to work on technique at a given level? Or do they want me to buy more and more lessons? :?
An experienced dance instructor knows more about advancement through levels of dance ability than I do, yes. But there has to be trust, give and take, and a firmly founded relationship before I'm going to just take their word for it. I'm the one paying the cash, so I want some input. Maybe not final say, but some input.
An experienced dance instructor knows more about advancement through levels of dance ability than I do, yes. But there has to be trust, give and take, and a firmly founded relationship before I'm going to just take their word for it. I'm the one paying the cash, so I want some input. Maybe not final say, but some input.
lily
Member
In the swing dance scene here I've noticed that students move up to the next level too quickly for the following reasons:
1) They can (the teachers don't tell students they can go up a level or should move down a level). I started going to a new dance school that advertised that the teachers contolled when the students moved levels. I waited and waited for that wonderful movement when I would be congratulated on my progress and told to move up, but it never came. Eventually I asked the teacher if I could possible consider trying out the next level up. He laughed and said, "Of course, you've been too high for this level for ages. You should have moved up weeks ago." Grrrrrr. (I later found out that a teacher had actually been fired from that school because he would refuse students entry to his class if they didn't have the level. He was told that he had to accept all students because he didn't want to lose their money :shock: )
2) The teacher brings down the level of the class to help the weaker students, rather than telling them to move down a level. This keeps all the other students back and makes those who actually do have the correct level, feel that they are in a class that's too easy for them (because it is).
3) Students just want to learn new moves without having to worry about style. They just want to have as many moves as possible to dance with but don't care about how well they can actually lead/follow them.
4) Pride. Everyone wants to be in the top class!
1) They can (the teachers don't tell students they can go up a level or should move down a level). I started going to a new dance school that advertised that the teachers contolled when the students moved levels. I waited and waited for that wonderful movement when I would be congratulated on my progress and told to move up, but it never came. Eventually I asked the teacher if I could possible consider trying out the next level up. He laughed and said, "Of course, you've been too high for this level for ages. You should have moved up weeks ago." Grrrrrr. (I later found out that a teacher had actually been fired from that school because he would refuse students entry to his class if they didn't have the level. He was told that he had to accept all students because he didn't want to lose their money :shock: )
2) The teacher brings down the level of the class to help the weaker students, rather than telling them to move down a level. This keeps all the other students back and makes those who actually do have the correct level, feel that they are in a class that's too easy for them (because it is).
3) Students just want to learn new moves without having to worry about style. They just want to have as many moves as possible to dance with but don't care about how well they can actually lead/follow them.
4) Pride. Everyone wants to be in the top class!
lily said:
I've seen this too, and it's very frustrating for the students who really are ready for the material. At a former studio, this happened so often that advanced students started boycotting group classes. That was a waste, because one can always practice technique. But I could understand the frustration. People would drive forty-five minutes or an hour to get to the "advanced" class, and, when they got there, be taught something at a much lower level. There has to be a better way.
lily
Member
pygmalion said:
It's a shame, isn't it? I was in a class once where, I think, the teacher had gotten totally fed up with students coming to his class before they were ready. He bombarded us with new moves and played the fastest music he could find for us to practice to. By the end of the class almost half the students had walked out. A little drastic, perhaps, and I think that it'd be better to simply ask the weaker students to leave, but I understand why the teacher could get frustrated enough to do this!
Porfirio Landeros
New Member
What to test them on?
Well, if you don't want to do a whole syllabus test, you can do selected steps... also, throwing a variety of things that they would taught in the advanced class at them, and seeing how they handle it works, too. Ultimately, a person of authority has to confront the student with an honest assessment, as others have pointed out here.
For the college club, we had a syllabus and a certain number of dances they should know before moving on. You can create your own metric, as long as it consitent for all your participants, that way you don't have to be stuck holding yourself to a national standard (bronze/silver/gold) if you're just trying to diversify your group a little bit and/or reward some slightly more advance people.
Well, if you don't want to do a whole syllabus test, you can do selected steps... also, throwing a variety of things that they would taught in the advanced class at them, and seeing how they handle it works, too. Ultimately, a person of authority has to confront the student with an honest assessment, as others have pointed out here.
For the college club, we had a syllabus and a certain number of dances they should know before moving on. You can create your own metric, as long as it consitent for all your participants, that way you don't have to be stuck holding yourself to a national standard (bronze/silver/gold) if you're just trying to diversify your group a little bit and/or reward some slightly more advance people.
how can they advance before they are ready? register for a class higher level than them?
2 things:
- they shouldn't be bored where they are, at their level, they have to always have plenty of stuff to work on, AND they have to know exactly what it is. NOt "i don't look as good as people in advanced class, so I have to stay at this level more" but "I have to master transfering my weight faster here and there and settling hips and straight legs here and learn how to do this thing on time". If they don't have specific tasks they'll want to advance just to get more things to work on.
- and another thing. In one of the classes I'm taking the teacher doesn't let you dance with other students until you can do it by yourself. So everyone will be switching partners except you. You'll be working on your own until the teacher tells you to go grab a partner. Also she makes everyone switch a few times and dance with random partners, but then she tells who should pair up with who (trying to match levels) and work for a while with that partner (so that more advanced leaders spend more time with more advanced followers).
2 things:
- they shouldn't be bored where they are, at their level, they have to always have plenty of stuff to work on, AND they have to know exactly what it is. NOt "i don't look as good as people in advanced class, so I have to stay at this level more" but "I have to master transfering my weight faster here and there and settling hips and straight legs here and learn how to do this thing on time". If they don't have specific tasks they'll want to advance just to get more things to work on.
- and another thing. In one of the classes I'm taking the teacher doesn't let you dance with other students until you can do it by yourself. So everyone will be switching partners except you. You'll be working on your own until the teacher tells you to go grab a partner. Also she makes everyone switch a few times and dance with random partners, but then she tells who should pair up with who (trying to match levels) and work for a while with that partner (so that more advanced leaders spend more time with more advanced followers).
lily
Member
I agree, it can't always be the student's fault. Some don't help the teachers but in the end it is the teacher's responsabilty to tell students to move levels if needed.
I think that the problem here is that the schools just want to make money. I have never seen any requirements posted for any levels in Swing dance classes and we don't have any medal system. Classes are called level 1, 2, 3 etc. which, if you ask, you will be told apply to how many years you have been dancing. That is just silly as apart from the fact that people progress at different speeds, some people go out dancing and take lessons much more often in a year than others :roll: :lol: