How does a good follower follow ?

[cl5814]

We work quite hard on footwork, rise-and-fall and all the other good technique components during group class,
covering only 1 new figure per standard bronze class. Referring to the technique book by Alan Moore, i practice the
new figures learned between group classes. We have a standardized routine with all the figures linked together so
we get to review all figures every week. Since i know the routine i can try my best having correct technique,
specifically footwork (got a footwork nazi instructor). Here is the question.... As a follower, when i dance
the figures randomly with a leader, i won't know which figure comes next. How do i ensure the correct technique, specifically footwork ?
I tend to just follow the lead (directing me where - not how - to step), if i may say, brain less.
Am i supposed to
1) Try to recognize the figure by the lead and once i have guesstimated the step, send a message to my feet to do the correct footwork.
This could lead to what i would call brain dancing or worse, anticipating a lead. This is a lot harder to do since the lead is subtle and happens very quickly. With a poor lead the follow might not even recognize the step at all.
2) Just follow the lead, again, (directing me where - not how - to step), brain less, paying special attention to rise and fall and partner's body position and therefore my footwork would be correct. However, I was taught that if your footwork is correct, your rise and fall would be
correct as well, NOT the other way around. This is somewhat easier to implement.

Now my real question. How do you follow as lady and have correct footwork, rise-and-fall, body alignment etc ? By practising - Option 1 or 2 ?
Our instructor wants the follower to know and dance the correct technique
and contribute her part to the partnership - not just follow, if you know what i mean.

I hope i have made myself clear and that this would turn into some good discussion.


Side comment : Now i understand why syllabus competitors may want a routine for their comp, if the follower knows the routine the follower's technique can be cleaner than without a routine. I guess this could be debatable.

 

[Another Elizabeth]

As you develop as a dancer, you will find that the footwork isn't just an arbitrary add-on that you have to do - it's the only comfortable way to execute the movements. If the body rise, timing, etc. are correct, then you would be hard-pressed to get your heel to the floor when it's not supposed to be (or vice versa).

By concentrating on doing the correct footwork now when you practice by yourself and with your partner in situations where you know what is coming up next, you are training good "muscle memory" that will persist when you're doing more pure following. But that muscle memory is not just "feather finish"="remember to put the R heel down", it's the memory of where your weight is as it travels over the feet to make that the natural action of your feet. Frequently I couldn't tell you what steps I just danced at the end of a wall, but I still was "doing my part" through all of them.

When you're following with a good leader, you will feel the timing and rise actions, and those will "lead" the footwork without your having to think of it, as long as you've developed good habits and associations about what kinds of body actions go with what kind of footwork.

I have often been complimented on my foot actions, but honestly, I almost never think of my feet any more when I dance. You need to go through a period of working on them to acquire the habits, but once you have them, they don't go away. Even when I was unable to dance for half a year because of a serious injury, I still had good feet when I returned (although they got tired in only a couple of dances at first, because all my habits were predicated on them being strong and on using all of that strength).

 

[cl5814]

If the body rise, timing, etc. are correct, then you would be hard-pressed to get your heel to the floor when it's not supposed to be (or vice versa).

When you're following with a good leader, you will feel the timing and rise actions, and those will "lead" the footwork without your having to think of it, as long as you've developed good habits and associations about what kinds of body actions go with what kind of footwork.

So, you follow your partner's body alignment and rise and this "lead" the footwork - ok, understood. What you are saying is this is more of the lead's responsiblity, rather than the follow, to initiate the correct body alignment and body rise. The best example of body action and footwork i can think of using quickstep as this is what we are learning currently, is the basic forward lock of lady. The body action is left side leading with toes as footwork. Is my understanding / example correct, however simple it may be ?

By concentrating on doing the correct footwork now when you practice by yourself and with your partner in situations where you know what is coming up next, you are training good "muscle memory" that will persist when you're doing more pure following. But that muscle memory is not just "feather finish"="remember to put the R heel down", it's the memory of where your weight is as it travels over the feet to make that the natural action of your feet. .

If i understand the underlined sentence correctly, where your weight on your foot is, comes from the correct footwork and making this the natural action. Correct ? Care to elaborate more ?

 

[Another Elizabeth]

So, you follow your partner's body alignment and rise and this "lead" the footwork - ok, understood. What you are saying is this is more of the lead's responsiblity, rather than the follow, to initiate the correct body alignment and body rise. The best example of body action and footwork i can think of using quickstep as this is what we are learning currently, is the basic forward lock of lady. The body action is left side leading with toes as footwork. Is my understanding / example correct, however simple it may be ?

Yes - the man is high enough in his feet that a lady who is staying in the correct dance position with him would be unable to put her heels down even if she wanted to. Further, the direction and timing of his body weight moving along the floor means that she must lock her feet in order to stay with him (rather than doing a chasse, for example).

By concentrating on doing the correct footwork now when you practice by yourself and with your partner in situations where you know what is coming up next, you are training good "muscle memory" that will persist when you're doing more pure following. But that muscle memory is not just "feather finish"="remember to put the R heel down", it's the memory of where your weight is as it travels over the feet to make that the natural action of your feet. .

If i understand the underlined sentence correctly, where your weight on your foot is, comes from the correct footwork and making this the natural action. Correct ? Care to elaborate more ?

I'm having some trouble parsing your sentence, but I'll elaborate.

In order to put the heel down in the feather finish, your body weight must move across the foot without being too high, and you can't start the transfer of weight to the left foot too early. The "push" out of the right heel is primarily a push that moves you along the floor, rather than up out of the floor. If the leader is using the correct amount of body and foot rise, this will feel natural as long as this action is in your "vocabulary." (A leader can't make an inexperienced follower do this action, but if she knows that her feet can move this way, he can set up conditions where this feels like the most natural action for them to do. This is a basic principle - for example, a lady has to know that locking her feet, instead of closing them, is an option for the lead of the lock discussed above to work. Otherwise, she may just do an off-balance chasse and then complain that the leader is pulling her in some impossible direction.)

This particular example may be a little unfair to your leader, because it is one of the more difficult actions to lead. I think there has been some technique discussion on this recently, but I don't have the threads handy. In an imperfect world, where your leader may not be dancing his part correctly in every particular, you may need to "fill in" in some spots from your knowledge of the syllabus and what is going on around the steps to make everything work. But as you improve your following skills, you will more and more be disconnecting that tendency and just following the actions that are led.

 

[Joe]

Ideally, you will follow whatever actions your leader leads...

 

[Sagitta]

I have a little test. I will dance merengue with a person. Instead of stepping, 1-2, 1-2, 1-2...I do 1-2-3-tap,1-2-3-tap. Then I switch to 1-2,1-2. Those who don't assume they know the dance and really follow get my switching. The others don't. And my lead is clear. When I switch I sort of hold for two beats and lead the other step clearly and firmly. There are are things that I do...too..

 

[dTas]

a good follower is attentive to what the man is doing "in the moment" and not the figure that he is leading.

i recall a coaching i recently received with a champion couple recently in town. as a lady you only worry about the next step, one step at a time, that is your world.

leads may get excited about "combinations" of steps saying "that's a cool figure!" or "i want to do that step". leads can get excited about this but follows think... "i have 4 steps, forward, backward, left, right...WHOOPIE!"

 

[Adwiz]

The more experienced I get, the more I realize how much my lead affects the woman's ability to follow -- and the challenge they have to understand what I'm doing. It is making me a better leader.

I'm convinced that learning to follow has as much to do with your partner's ability to lead as your ability to follow through. I tended to be too "gentle" with my leads -- especially in Standard -- afraid that if I was firmer my lady might think I was manhandling her around. Now I'm beginning to understand that I have to be much more firm than I ever imagined, though not with my muscles but with my center. This takes time to learn and your partner will have to discover that as well.

For example, if a Reverse Turn in Foxtrot or Double Reverse Spin in Waltz or Quickstep are danced properly, the woman has no choice but to do a perfect heel turn. Only a bad follower would fail to do it. That's because the man's rising action in which he sweeps her up and stops her forward motion with his left side leaves her no choice at all but to bring her feet together, ready to execute a heel turn, and turn with his body. It would take effort for her to do anything else!

So don't beat yourself up over it. If your partner is working on his lead you'll find it gets easier.

 

[Chris Stratton]

For example, if a Reverse Turn in Foxtrot or Double Reverse Spin in Waltz or Quickstep are danced properly, the woman has no choice but to do a perfect heel turn. Only a bad follower would fail to do it. That's because the man's rising action in which he sweeps her up and stops her forward motion with his left side leaves her no choice at all but to bring her feet together, ready to execute a heel turn, and turn with his body. It would take effort for her to do anything else!

Off topic, but that raises an interesting question: do you believe the turn in a heel turn happens as you come onto the foot, or once you are on it?

I believe it happens as you come onto the foot, and as a result there is no stopping of travel - it slows, but it's more a case of one side of the body overtaking the other - and by extension, one partner overtaking the other.

On the other hand, some believe the turn happens over the foot, once the other foot has closed. In that case, motion would be more likely to stop as the partner goes past.

In either case, the rise (in the legs only for the person doing the heel turn, in the feet for the partner) has to be steep enough that step two will swing closed, rather than through - that is what makes it a heel turn, while the other issues determine how flowing and linear vs. central and rotary it will come out.

 

[tacad]

...if a follow could follow fellows. :wink: