how long does it take to become proficient in tango?

[dchester]

I partially agree with that.

Dancing simply to completely to the music over time becomes boring.
It maybe be suitable for festivals or big milongas.

But younger dancers want to explore complex stuff in tango.
They want to push their boundaries.

I am into both simple and complex dancing.
It comes and go over. It's like moon's phases to me.
Lately I like more complex dancing.
And it seems that followers want it, so I need to deliver it.

I like your attitude of doing whatever it takes.


I guess different songs bring out different feelings in me. With a slow Rodriguez, D'Agostino, or something like that, I'm more likely to dance simple and make the dance more about the embrace. With something like a D'Arienzo, I tend to dance a little more lively (I also will be more lively if the woman is not into the embrace).

I guess some Pugliese, Piazzolla, and some alternative music is where I'd be more likely to push the boundaries.

 

[Mladenac]

Oh, I understand that. Many years ago I was a younger dancer and I, too, wanted to do the fanciest, most challenging dances possible. After several years of that I began to learn that there could be something more fulfilling and satisfying in doing simpler, easier steps, but with greater nuance and expression. You said that simple becomes boring after a while. I discovered the opposite, that fancy becomes boring, while simple never does.

Everything becomes boring if it is consumed constantly

 

[Mladenac]

I like your attitude of doing whatever it takes.


I guess different songs bring out different feelings in me. With a slow Rodriguez, D'Agostino, or something like that, I'm more likely to dance simple and make the dance more about the embrace. With something like a D'Arienzo, I tend to dance a little more lively (I also will be more lively if the woman is not into the embrace).

I guess some Pugliese, Piazzolla, and some alternative music is where I'd be more likely to push the boundaries.

I am not into Pugliese and Piazzolla at all currently.

Standard Argetnine tango has a lot of gems to explore for me.
I have a lot of orchestras and songs to explore.

I like to push mine and partners boundaries a bit.

 

[Mladenac]

Most followers I know want a mix of experiences during the evening. What they find boring usually isn't a particular type of dancing, but rather dancing only one particular type of dance all night.

It also seems that followers go through a "fancier is better" growing stage just like leaders. It's not the most advanced followers I hear complaining "He doesn't do much of anything" about good leaders who keep it simple. It's the advanced beginner and intermediate followers that I hear saying that.

YMMV

Sometimes they prefer simpler, sometimes complex.
It depends on the partner, night, music, inspiration ...

The most important is that we both dance the way we most enjoy that tanda.

 

[AndaBien]

Everything becomes boring if it is consumed constantly

Of course, but "doing simpler, easier steps, but with greater nuance and expression", is not the same thing as consumed constantly.

I can certainly become bored with doing the same dance over and again, but that's not what I'm talking about. When I find that I'm too tired to dance creatively, I get off the floor, because I'm bored with my own dancing. Or, I can choose to dig down a bit and bring more creativity to my dance. I can take a side step only one or two ways, or I can take one in almost infinite ways, if I care to be creative enough.

 

[Mladenac]

Of course, but "doing simpler, easier steps, but with greater nuance and expression", is not the same thing as consumed constantly.

I can certainly become bored with doing the same dance over and again, but that's not what I'm talking about. When I find that I'm too tired to dance creatively, I get off the floor, because I'm bored with my own dancing. Or, I can choose to dig down a bit and bring more creativity to my dance. I can take a side step only one or two ways, or I can take one in almost infinite ways, if I care to be creative enough.

IMHO The things is that is not simple dancing anymore.
Maybe it's not so attractive but it's not simple.

And both dancers must be advanced cause follower might not feel those nuances.

 

[AndaBien]

IMHO The things is that is not simple dancing anymore.
Maybe it's not so attractive but it's not simple.

And both dancers must be advanced cause follower might not feel those nuances.

So, we agree on the concepts, but disagree on the words. Nothing new about that.

 

[Gssh]

All didactics will meet at some point and my former opponents learned posture and elegance in the meantime. But back that days they used to be the stars on the dance floor, not me.

I would amend that to "all didactics will meet at some point if explored fully" - what i see in communities is that quite a few leaders - maybe even the majority - is not really interested in developing their tango to that degree. And in some ways they are probably making a reasonable choice - i would not be able to claim with a good conscience that working as much as i have on my tango has actually increased my enjoyment of dancing tango and going to a milonga all that much.

There are lots of people who start with advanced moves, and in their quest to be able to do the advanced moves learn the fundamentals - just like in the old joke "beginners take intermediate classes, intermediates take advanced classes, and advanced dancers take beginner classes". But there is a phase in which advanced moves done badly are sufficient to be a "star on the dancefloor" - and some people get stuck there, and "knowing more figures than my dance partner" is not a very sustainable strategy - we all know the people in our communities who continuously switch who their preferred partners are to maintain that knowledge gap. Similarly a lot of people start with great fundamentals and add advanced moves later, and there are similarly those who get stuck in the "shuffling along the edge of the dancefloor and claiming that this is how it is done in BA"-phase.

And in my experience the people who pause on the path starting with "great fundamentals" are much more likely to enjoy tango long term, and be a positive force in their community than the peopel who pause on the path starting with "a broad survey of interesting moves".

Gssh

 

[AndaBien]

...the old joke "beginners take intermediate classes, intermediates take advanced classes, and advanced dancers take beginner classes"...

That's a good one - never heard it before - but it is so true.

One could only hope that all dancers would continue to grow long enough to become students of the basics. Unfortunately many students get stuck somewhere along the journey.

 

[Subliminal]

So, we agree on the concepts, but disagree on the words. Nothing new about that.

I always liked "subtle vs complex". It's not really simple dancing anymore if you are hitting syncopated notes, tempo changes, etc, even if you are "just walking".

 

[Subliminal]

Or maybe Internal energy vs External energy. Like Eastern philosophy.

 

[Mladenac]

We could separate complex movements and complex musicality 8)

And to give hints what each terms means.
To have standardized vocabulary on the forum.

It might be new task on the forum so the discussions become more fruitful.

 

[Nina22]

I had four privates before I was let loose on the dance floor. Worked for me since I'm a fast learner & ultra kinesthetic .

I don't think I'll ever stop learning. I will always take tango workshops & classes but I learn ten times more at a milonga simply by dancing with (feeling) so many people.

I've been dancing Argentine tango for about 1 1/2 years now. Not planning to stop any day soon either .

 

[Mladenac]

I had four privates before I was let loose on the dance floor. Worked for me since I'm a fast learner & ultra kinesthetic .

I don't think I'll ever stop learning. I will always take tango workshops & classes but I learn ten times more at a milonga simply by dancing with (feeling) so many people.

I've been dancing Argentine tango for about 1 1/2 years now. Not planning to stop any day soon either .

During milonga you may learn sth, especially how to adjust to other people.
Advanced dancers have a virtue of better adjustment, so I believe you can progress more easily.
The vital part is that you know how is sth done i.e. what should be recognized during dancing.

Good leader can instantly adjust to the follower and continually increase difficulty of elements and subtility of leading.
It's great that you didn't give up on workshops and classes.

It seems that you had good privates.
It's easier for the followers at the beginning since a lot of leader lead the same.
Later every dancer develop their own style so it become trickier.

 

[bordertangoman]

Good leader can instantly adjust to the follower and continually increase difficulty of elements and subtility of leading.
It's great that you didn't give up on workshops and classes.

It seems that you had good privates.
It's easier for the followers at the beginning since a lot of leader lead the same.
Later every dancer develop their own style so it become trickier.

i find that different tango communities (in the UK) sometimes have different styles - or gaps - some places they always take tiny steps irrespective of what you lead, or the space available or whether its tango vals or milonga, others are clueless on turns, which is somewhat easier to deal with as a leader, though some followers don't adapt to be being lead outside their own little box.