how long does it take...

fascination

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so...I have a friend who should join rather than lurk...but I am going to post this on thier behalf anyhow....I already gave them my answer...so I will wait to repeat it here until others have chimed in....

how long would it take for a reasonably talented beginner taking lessons from top level first class international coach to become proficently good at intl foxtrot basics....?
 
Define "proficiently good." According to whom?

How often are lessons? How much do they practice?
 
Ditto Peaches. If you define reasonably good as knowing the bronze figures and being able to dance them without the heavy, step, step look . . . maybe 6-9 months? To achieve nice shaping and fluidity . . . for me, the rest of my life:-).
 
Dittoes.
Foxtrot seems to be one of those dances that you can kinda passably grunt your way through, but until you "get it" and understand and implement how to make it move correctly, it's a painful battle.
 
Depends on what they mean by proficiently good BUT

As a beginner who is practicing fairly hard and has a good coach I would think it shouldn't take them too long to be comfortable enough with the basics to dance them in a social or beginner competitive setting.

This obviously also says something about the level of foxtrot at beginner competition and could depend on a lot of external factors but with a decent amount of training you could probably do quite well in bronze in about a month...and silver in maybe 6-9? (Disclaimer: I don't compete pro-am so I don't know how the skill level differs so this is based on observation of am-am comps)

Beyond that I agree with everyone else...the time it actually takes to get proficiently good is endless! :p
 
and to add what others have already pointed out... learning steps & technique is one thing, but the state of an individual's body is another dimension -- how much tension is there? how much vitality? how much sensation? lightness, freedom of movement, and the ability to feel & respond depend on all those things. the knowledge of steps & technique can only penetrate so far if the body & spirit are challenged.

answer to OP's question: as long as it takes. :D
 
peach...I think that is the whole point of this person's question...that everyone has a vastly different idea of what "reasonably good" really is...but since we are talking about lessons with a top pro...presumably weekly...I guess that was the whole point of the debate...what our membership believes constitutes "reasonably good" intl FT basics w/ a top pro
 
Oh. I interpreted it slightly differently.

I mean every time you make progress you realize how much further you have to go, so it just seems to me that "reasonably good" is a very shifting standard. *shrug* As you know, I'm not even "reasonably qualified" to comment on what would be considered reasonably good.
 
In my mind, the standard for foxtrot is to have the footwork, balance, poise, and understanding to move smoothly with drifted timing below 30 mpm.

For leaders this is physically about posture and building the strength to balance forward on the foot, for accurate and sustained feathers and followers heel turns. But its also about building a feel for the "swing from behnd the music" scheme of timing, and that may take the longest to internalize.

For followers, I believe the major gating factor is learning footwork for sustained, slow movement. Specifically, a willingess to take the weight onto the standing heel while the moving foot is still moving. This is so dfficult in court shoes that many dance for years without learning it.

I have recently been finding that students of only limited social background, who are willing to put on chunky heel practce shoes and diligently practice creating movement by sending the body from the standing foot (and related heel turn drills) are making dramatic progress towards a smooth slow foxtrot in a timeframe of 1-2 months.

Foxtrot is a difficult dance, but I suspect the reason it usually takes so much longer to learn is not because of extreme difficulty of the actions, but instead difficulty in identifying and steering sustained practical effort precisely to the things that need to be learned.

Common mistakes that set learning back: reaching the moving foot instead of sending the body, trying to interpret SQQ literally, trying to turn with weight on both heels.
 
P...am not looking for the definitive correct answer here simply a variety of opinions...ie Chris answer isn't so much about time as about focus...but presuming that a top pro would have the proper focus for the lady, then...how much time might that take...best and worst case?
 
There's dancing it well, and being able to reproduce it. We've all had lessons/practices when things went *fabulously*. Everything felt and looked wonderful. But if you don't understand how you did it, and how to mentally/physically do it again.... pfffft :roll:

Then there's the matter of working on ONLY basic Foxtrot, versus working on other dances or movements that ultimately will make dancing Foxtrot easier. I may have spent a buttload of time on Waltz, for instance, and much less specifically focused on the other dances; but I find that whatever issue gets "fixed" in Waltz helps the others too, with few exceptions.

A top Pro I think would be able to pick out the student's weaknesses and limitations and work on them before attempting to fumble through the skills that make Foxtrot flow beautifully. It may be generic movement drills or another dance entirely - whatever helps to strengthen the problem areas.

You want a timeline? Depending on the amount of time you have to spend on coaching and practice, plus whatever other exercises/training you need to fix pre-existing physical issues, I find that I can resolve a relatively major issue within a couple of weeks, *if* that is all I focus on. Take the # of issues the coach feels you have, and multiply by 2-3 weeks each.
 
If its been 2-3 months without gaining a capability worth feeling good about, I'd suggest taking a hard look at factors that might be keeping a student out of an ideal learning zone. Especially the external assumptions - lack of personal aptitude could be a factor, but I think its blamed far too often.
 
i *think* what this person is getting at is, not trying to deal with any particular problem...but rather...simply how long it would take a top level pro to teach an average talented dancer with no specific impediments to be at an admirable level of proficiency in intl FT basics...presuming weekly contact
 
Weekly contact may be less than ideal.

Solid basics and winning competitions are not as related as one might assume. Some famous teachers are absolutely outstanding at providing effective instruction in basic skills to social or syllabus students, while others are more dedicated to developing the aspects of winning at higher levels which complement an existing foundation.
 

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