How to improve musicality

[ArbeeNYC]

And as quoted, you can't teach the feeling. Nevertheless you can teach and learn the expression, or display of that emotion. It's called acting. Certainly an illusion (but then, so is pretending it's BsAs). It doesn't need choreography, just an understanding of the emotions being expressed in the music or song and the tools to express it. That's where some Argentinian Spanish, or knowledge of the meaning of the lyrics (musicality?), comes in.

The point is you don't know what emotion it is--which is specific to an individual not to the song. And what do you do about instrumentals? A tango with sad or tragic lyrics may not feel sad or tragic to a dancer. It may be emotionally resonant to the dancer but you have no idea how. Gavito dancing Pugliese was all about performing emotion but he's not really a good example for the rest of us. And what a given tango meant for Gavito may not be what it means to me or you or Carlitos Espinoza. And while knowledge or understanding of the lyrics is certainly useful, most of us get our cues from the ebb and flow of the music, including the vocals.

 

[Brummbaer]

You can't teach anyone that a given passage in a given tango expresses Emotion X and another passage expresses Emotion Y.

You can tell them that's how you perceive it, or even tell them that's how the majority of Argentinians dancing in in BsAs in a given era perceived it and interpreted it. Even show them some video of some maestro dancing to that music. Without further data, or means of getting that information, they believe you - and interpret it that way. Maybe others see that as their 'musicality', or a complete misinterpretation. But maybe observing that isn't relevant because it's really about how my dance partner and I interpret that music.

The point is you don't know what emotion it is--which is specific to an individual not to the song.

No you don't, but I've got to take some stance from the cues I'm given. And decades later, without a lifetime immersed in the BsAs culture. But my interpretation is just as valid as anyone else's without further data to reinforce or destroy that interpretation. I can't get that cultural immersion, nor assimilate the vast array of danceable AT tracks; I need to fast track it somehow (there's insufficient time left), so if someone who ought to know gives me some additional cues about a piece, then I probably build that in. Alternatively I abandon all hope and leave AT to the Argentinians in BsAs to sell to the tourists.

 

[TTanguero]

if someone who ought to know gives me some additional cues about a piece, then I probably build that in

Maybe, but I'm not sure what value that would really add. What matters is how you and your partner respond to that song in the moment you dance it. How someone else responds to it, even if they are more knowledgeable than you about the lyrics and the history and the biography of that singer, is of no more value than your own interpretation. (Perhaps in a performance for Spanish speakers it matters more, but not for social dancing.)

I speak only enough Spanish to buy a milonga ticket and order a meal afterwards, but even if I were fluent, I'm still more likely to dance to the melody than to the literal meaning of the lyrics.

 

[Brummbaer]

Maybe, but I'm not sure what value that would really add.

That depends on your initial intrinsic musical interpretation. But then I've heard well-known tango pieces performed by prestigious orchestras and been totally lost at their interpretation, and watched beginners dance tango to milonga because no one explained. I guess it's like saying you can readily and easily learn a language immersively by living there, starting to speak, and developing a cultural awareness of the words used and their context, but you could also take lessons, maybe a native speaker helps you and tells you of the culture, what words or phrases are different in other regions, attitudes to other regions, dialects, etc. You can't beat that immersive learning for the final result, but it takes time away from work, it costs, it's slow and frustrating initially, you make mistakes, and sometimes you're not even aware of those.

And I guess, if there's no ready route to enable you to access that information giving you context, or you're not even bothered, or think you know enough, then just dance on.

 

[Bailango]

This is too subjective. You can't teach anyone that a given passage in a given tango expresses Emotion X and another passage expresses Emotion Y. You can teach them how the music works, how the song works musically, and different ways to respond to those passages. They'll have to work out the emotions for themselves. And this is especially true of instrumentals. Unless you're inside someone's head, you don't know what emotions they're feeling and you can't impose your own.

Why do you assume that you have to teach imposing own emotions? Nor is it about what given passage expresses according to you. I don’t need to learn how the music works to realize that it expresses something I can relate to. That could be feeling of happiness, sadness, nostalgia, and countless others. Doesn’t matter what the lyrics say. Often in tango and salsa music the lyrics can be dark but the mood of the music can feel happy or romantic. Are dancers wrong in expressing it? No.

You don’t have to tell people what to feel. I am not sure where you get that idea. You have to teach people to express what they feel through their movement. Or atleast try to. Than do any random steps sequences. Which is what many do.

 

[Bailango]

And as quoted, you can't teach the feeling. Nevertheless you can teach and learn the expression, or display of that emotion. It's called acting. Certainly an illusion (but then, so is pretending it's BsAs). It doesn't need choreography, just an understanding of the emotions being expressed in the music or song and the tools to express it.

We are getting stuck in semantics of acting and choreography. In which case would you say expression during dancing is not acting?

I agree you can teach and demonstrate movements that reflect the mood of the music as a starting point.

That's where some Argentinian Spanish, or knowledge of the meaning of the lyrics (musicality?), comes in.

Here I disagree. Can be helpful but not necessary.

 

[TTanguero]

Can be helpful but not necessary.

I'd go as far as saying it can be positively unhelpful to understand the lyrics and/or be familiar with the events behind the song!

 

[Brummbaer]

I'd go as far as saying it can be positively unhelpful to understand the lyrics and/or be familiar with the events behind the song!

That's your choice in insular England. Argentinians seem to manage it quite well.

 

[Brummbaer]

In which case would you say expression during dancing is not acting?

Ah, semantics. Does it matter what you call it or with what you compare it? Acting was simply the closest equivalent for me.

I'd say that most emotion expressed during dancing is an act. Of course there are some which aren't (thinking back to, say, that young lady in my arms where I did wish to pursue more). Ok, maybe I am completely enamoured and overwhelmed by the power of the music, the situation, the venue, etc, etc - and those lyrics sung with such depth of meaning).

Seriously, I can go from something where the wife's left him with the kids to feed after losing all the money on a horse race, to the pretty young girl about town, back to some longing for a holiday resort, or a day off at the races. And, maybe, find some expression for them all. Are they all real feelings or just expressing some emotion? (Or maybe it's just a poor DJ?)

 

[TTanguero]

That's your choice in insular England. Argentinians seem to manage it quite well.

I've sent plenty of Argentines dancing a happy-looking dance to a song about losing his girl (which is, let's face it, about 40% of tango songs!)

 

[Rabbit]

There's no one correct way to interpret any piece of music. In practice, I can say that my own interpretations both as a musician and dancer, which are rooted in general musical understanding and choreographic principles, have been compatible with those of people who grew up with extensive exposure to the music - so I dont think the cultural immersion divide actually exists.

There are a few cool ways to play with a word or phrase in the lyrics or interpret the title of the song, if you know what it is. Works best if you have a partner who also understands why you did something. You could call it an optional extra. Or dance to alternative music with lyrics in English to experence it.

I am not a believer in constantly acting depressed because of the tone of the lyrics though - that sort of thing gets dull very quickly

 

[itwillhappen]

The demand that one should please dance musically is conveyed to beginners very early on. I think it's less about acting to match the lyrics but more about the dancing together not being disturbed by uncorrelated actions. This also applies when I eat it, I don't want to be torn out of the flow of the dance by myself through uncorrelated actions based on my misestimations about the flow of the music.

Individual tango songs rarely trigger any special emotions in me because I didn't hear them when I was younger, and this applies to most of the living tango dancers.
My actual feelings in a milonga, on the other side, depend on many factors, one of which is of course the music.

 

[TTanguero]

There are a few cool ways to play with a word or phrase in the lyrics or interpret the title of the song, if you know what it is.

Sounds fun! Could you give an example?

 

[Rabbit]

Sounds fun! Could you give an example?

There are words that suggest movements or pauses: to wait; to come; to go; to show strength or tenderness or pride or hesitation. For one obvious example, I'm most likely going to pause while the singer goes "Pacieeeeeeencia.."

Some of the titles of instrumentals also suggest the interpretation - particularly in Pugliese one can really tell a story

 

[TTanguero]

I'm most likely going to pause while the singer goes "Pacieeeeeeencia.."