How to improve musicality

[ArbeeNYC]

You must be talking of a different dance like a mutated virus variant that developed on an isolated island far away from the main strain

Did most of milongas in BsAs always have a recognizable Ronda? Always = since golden age to now.

The annual carnivals didn't. Those were often outdoor events with thousands of people. Indoor venues are a different story.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

In addition, there were no milongas at all in the golden age.

Where do you get this idea from? Where do you think people danced?

 

[pianistamediano]

Depends on where you go to dance, but floorcraft and floor behavior at the larger events leave a great deal to be desired. Much of the behavior described above, you find here as well:

- All the world's evils

Sad, isn't it. OTOH, we have some well-behaved milongas, where, even on a crowded floor, the couples navigate sensibly and coureously. (Hosts can make a big difference here.)

Sounds like Londoners would get on very well with New Yorkers. I'm glad there's some safe areas at the very least.

I'd attribute some of them to the milonga layout — the first point might be due to the best cabeceo areas (e.g. around the refreshments area) and pista entryways being in close proximity, or that there is just a limited number of ways to enter the dancefloor. But then I'd argue that the first couples on the floor are obliged to move rapidly to the other side. Not sure if this is what's done in NY, but during the first few phrases of the first song of the tanda, it's fine to go across the whole floor unless it's already filled up.

By the by, I've heard about an outside milonga held in Central Park whenever the weather permits — what is it like?

 

[Bailango]

Depends on where you go to dance, but floorcraft and floor behavior at the larger events leave a great deal to be desired. Much of the behavior described above, you find here as well:

- too many people trying to enter the ronda at the same time at the same point (why?)
- consistent failure to make eye contact with the leader behind you when entering the ronda ("teachers" are also guilty of this)
- BACKING INTO THE LINE OF DANCE WITHOUT LOOKING
- Jumping into the line of dance sideways without looking
- Stepping randomly out of an inner lane into an outer lane without looking
- Stopping to do some weird stuff as the space in front of the couple grows and grows, backing up the line of dance
- Showboating by performers
- Showboating by couples who are not performers but think they are
- Showboating by couples who can't really showboat
- Dancing to some tango but not the one currently being played
- Colliding with the couple in front of you (me) while I'm standing still, before we even begin the tanda
- Tailgating for no apparent reason (usually dancing unnecessarily fast). It's as if they worry they'll be late getting to the end of the pista or something.
- Talking during a Pugliese tanda
- Talking during a Troilo tanda
- Talking during any tanda (loudly enough for me to hear it)
- Stomping on the floor (where does this come from?)
- Crashing into tables and chairs around the pista
- et cetera

Sad, isn't it. OTOH, we have some well-behaved milongas, where, even on a crowded floor, the couples navigate sensibly and coureously. (Hosts can make a big difference here.)

One or two transgressions from the above list will happen at least once or twice in each tanda. The most common transgressions are lack of leader’s cabaceo when entering the ronda or entering from sides, multiple people trying to enter at same time, not moving quickly once you enter the ronda so others behind can get in too.

I will tailgate when the music is rhythmic and calling for moving forward but the guy ahead is sleep walking to some non-existent rhythm. I wish I were an organizer and I pull these non-movers out of the pista for violating .

When I dance, I get dictatorial thoughts in mind:.

- Flogging for the leaders entering the ronda without making eye contact with the leader already dancing or those who decide to randomly enter in crowded ronda.

- have a cane handy to beat leasees that changes lane randomly or keeps switching leaving rest to wonder which lane he is dancing in

- ban from milonga those showing consistentjy poor skills and no skill improvement.

- pull out dancers that disturb the flow of the ronda. Give them time out for next three or four tandas.

- Anyone that stands and talks for more than 40 seconds after the tanda start required to pay fine that is 3x the entry fee to the milonga.

- snatch phone from anyone that is looking into the phone for more than 20 seconds, if caught doing so the second time.

 

[opendoor]

.....In addition, there were no milongas at all in the golden age..

Where do you get this idea from? Where do you think people danced?

You didn't read my lengthy posts about this (or forgot the content because you would have to change your cherished ideas about traditional tango)

A friend from the DJ forum on FB who died much too early had meticulously evaluated the yellow pages of BsAs in the G.A. The word milonga for dance events even did not exist. First there were the theaters and cabarets, where those with higher incomes went. The dancing to live music was according to the ballroom etiquette, but not to today's codigos for milonga. They weren't any milongas in today's sense. For normal people there were very rarely "baile con grabaciones", which were release parties from the labels. There was limited dancing in "confiterias bailables" and, from the mid-50s on, "tango del club" in the basketball halls. Remember, shellacs were not transported, and vinilos not yet invented. There were no music boxes with vinyl singles yet. Some pubs had "vittroleras" that served the Victrolas. In bars there weren't DJs in today's sense and people had difficulties to sway and smooch on the spot due to lack of space in front of the bar. There were no codigos and no ronda. When I DJ, I project photos of dance events from the GA: really a wild mess on the dance floor.

Maybe finally you should also read Saba's book

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I'd attribute some of them to the milonga layout — the first point might be due to the best cabeceo areas (e.g. around the refreshments area) and pista entryways being in close proximity, or that there is just a limited number of ways to enter the dancefloor. But then I'd argue that the first couples on the floor are obliged to move rapidly to the other side. Not sure if this is what's done in NY, but during the first few phrases of the first song of the tanda, it's fine to go across the whole floor unless it's already filled up.

By the by, I've heard about an outside milonga held in Central Park whenever the weather permits — what is it like?

Yeah, at some of the larger venues, people congregate near the refreshment area and entrance (and coat room), so there's always a crowd there. So, people coming around the ronda run into people either trying to enter the ronda or just standing around. (It's a big floor, so you could enter elsewhere, but you obviously are going to be near the person you invite). It's often easier in smaller venues with one or two (or more) entrance points.

Central Park (I haven't been in several years) can be fun. Nice location. Very bad concrete floor and not always the best dancers. There's often a free intro class for people watching on the sidelines. Music can be good. There used to be a woman selling empanadas for a couple of bucks but I don't think she's there any longer.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Maybe finally you should also read Saba's book

Obviously, I have read Saba's book.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

The word milonga for dance events even did not exist

What years are you considering for the GA? For me, it is 1930-1955. When D'Arienzo or Troilo played, and people danced, you wouldn't call that a milonga? The fact that they may not have given it that name does not mean it wasn't a milonga. Theaters, depending on the time period, were often very cheap and considered popular forms of entertainment. Not the famous theaters, obviously.

 

[Steve Pastor]

Fifty years from now you might not realize that at the Norse Hall in Portland you could dance Swing and Argentine Tango by looking at lists of places to dance. (MAYBE The WayBack Machine will have more information.
Sabas, yes, quotes many older dancers who are quoted as going to milongas.
And, Sabas again, "many clubs like Sin Rumba and Atlanta preferred to play records at their dances." This following a mention of events in 1944. p 104 I'm sure there are mentions of dancing to records at smaller venues, but ... time... Long playing records? 1947 or 48.
Cacho Dante was born in 1938 and talked of the men and boys standing in the middle of the floor with the neighborhood girls and their mothers on the outside.

 

[Steve Pastor]

Stomping on the floor (where does this come from?)

Taconeos Andalusian derived heel-stomping episodes. ... from Thompson
Just so happens one of my dance partners asked if I'd ever done flamenco...
Thompson also mentions zapateos (spelling) with the entire foot.
see my ask in the ID thread

 

[Steve Pastor]

In the US Billboard magazine had an ad for

THE SEEBURG MULTI -SELECTOR * MODEL "Q"
MELODY KING

that plays records in 1937.

 

[Rabbit]

- Stomping on the floor (where does this come from?)

Argentine folklore dances, possibly. But some of the milongas also do sound quite stompy.

 

[Brummbaer]

Argentine folklore dances, possibly. But some of the milongas also do sound quite stompy.

One descriptor sometimes used when learning milonga is 'being heavy' and 'more grounded', or 'feeling your feet more under the floor'. For beginner classes that's sometimes taken, until adjusted, as being 'stompy'. You copy what you see and, as you say, some milongas sound quite 'stompy'. Then you go to a milonga as a beginner and dance milonga and 'stomp'.

Where there are no defined 'correct' dance steps, is it 'wrong'?

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Argentine folklore dances, possibly. But some of the milongas also do sound quite stompy.

Oh, you mean chacarera and others.

 

[LadyLeader]

There was never a ronda there, but there was definitely considerate dancing.

It would be interesting if you one day test dancing at a 50/50 event. They maybe have some of the pista features you are talking about.

Last summer 50/50 dancers had an event here with a lot of international/European dancers among participants. I went to one of the pre-milongas offering a surprising experience! I just couldn't dance but was quite frozen on one spot. After a few tandas I watched the pista in dynamic movement but I could not see collisions. It must be that they advance to any direction offering a free space around them and all of them are moving in that way.

By now I am trained to advance in the dance direction and when dancing with experienced couples I trust that they have moved forward when it is time for my steps. This anticipation system, my navigation system was not helpful that evening and I was basically unable to leave the spot.