How to improve musicality

[Brummbaer]

At a private she told me that too many crusada steps during a milonga tanda turns it to a tango.
Have you heard about this rule/ guidance?

As an 8CB, or semblance thereof - not recommended. But repetitive** crosses, or leading fwd-cross, back-cross for each in a milonga, even suggested if it fits the music. Similarly ocho cortado. But perhaps that's today's interpretation of 'milonga'.

**repetitive - probably no more than 3, and then only if it fits the music.

 

[opendoor]

..At a private she told me that too many crusada steps during a milonga tanda turns it to a tango.
Have you heard about this rule...

No, and its crap!

 

[Bailango]

[At a private she told me that too many crusada steps during a milonga tanda turns it to a tango.
Have you heard about this rule/ guidance? ]

I assume you mean the follower’s cross. I never heard of the but I agree. It is one of my self made rules. When dancing milonga I rarely ever resort to leading a follower into a cross step. Though if they have quick feet, I can imagine playing with the cross step. To think of it in normal tanda too I don’t use it a lot. I don’t see others using it much either. There are certain steps that mostly don’t work with the milonga rhythm. One of the most irritating things when dancing milonga with a wrong partner is them stepping like it is Tango. A lot of people in my scene will dance milonga like it is another tango.

You could dance any step to milonga rhythm if you are able to adjust its timing and keep them short. To me certain steps/moves just don’t feel right when dancing milonga.

 

[LadyLeader]

[At a private she told me that too many crusada steps during a milonga tanda turns it to a tango.
Have you heard about this rule/ guidance? ]

No, and its crap!

It is interesting to read how different phenomenon we check when recognizing and expressing milonga!

Oppendoor what do you look at to see if the dance is a milonga?

1. As I see it today I have inner movement processes, the ways muscles work together are different for milonga, vals and tango. It is like normal talking, computer word by word talk or singing!

Tango: I am dancing
Milonga: I.am.dancing
Vals: Iiaamdanciing

This difference in process is so clear that I am sometimes recognizing the music type by it. Oh! my body is doing milonga steps - this must be a milonga tanda! The same for vals.

I think there are very few milongas I dance in this staccato way only but if there is a slightest hint about melody I will go with it by changing the way of movement.

I have learned a lot of figures on milonga workshops and some of them I use but the rest is random steps. I never have had an idea of limiting the figures; the limits maybe exist but I am not aware of them. An opposite limit could be that I think I use traspies only in milonga!

2. I create a drive for milonga. Even if I am dancing slowly there is a strong underlying energy ready to burst out in fast movements.

3. Milonga is not fast tango! When I watch a muted video I want see that it is milonga, I want to be able to tell apart a muted tango vs milonga.

When a rhythm prominent, figure limiting person sees my milonga it will probably look like crap.
The rhythm/melody interested person who appreciate the drive will kiss the floor after the same tanda!

 

[opendoor]

..Opendoor what do you look at to see if the dance is a milonga?

Feet: Baldosa as basic, then elements as traspies and chained crosses in double time.

Shoulders: Diagonally alternated lifting and lowering of the shoulders.

Face: A smile.

 

[JournalInTime]

There are too many camps for one person to be 100% right for everybody else. It isn't as though there are gods or even mortal masters who get to hand down decrees on what is and is not "correct" tango, vals, and milonga. The matter is heavily subjective . . . though not entirely so, as I'll try to express.

This is why I've adopted my coach's criterion for distinguishing between tango, vals, and milonga, and also between individual tangos, valses, and milongas, and orquestas, and eras: As a spectator, can I see the music?

If I can see the music, then you're dancing that music in a way that's correct for you. I must concede that it is musical, even if it isn't correct for me or according to some random teacher or master somewhere, and even if it isn't strictly traditional (who decides what's "traditional" is another argument). I am not obligated to dance your way, but I have no right to say, "You aren't dancing a tango/vals/milonga."

If I cannot see the music, then you're not dancing that music in a way that's correct for anyone. It doesn't take a master to notice that the steps aren't marking any part of a tune – not the beat, not the rhythm, not a melody, not some specific instrument or harmony. They can be strictly traditional by the standards of some master or historian, but I have the right to say, "You aren't dancing this music."

I see so many dancers trying to express milonga music with "traditional milonga movements" like cunitas, little successive crosses, traspies, rocking-boat walks, and whatnot, but totally off the music. I see many trying to express vals music with "traditional vals movements" that they proceed to dance in 4/4 rather than 3/4 and that end up spilling across measures. They think that since they're using the "right" steps, they're dancing milonga or vals correctly.

They're wrong.

The steps aren't the dance. If you can't coordinate a "traditional" milonga or vals movement with milonga or vals music, you're better off sticking to tango steps that you've mastered well enough that you can put them on the music. Then you're dancing a milonga or a vals, even if you're doing it in a way that bugs some traditionalist.

And as I implied, who gets to hand out the "traditional" label, anyway? I've seen big-name professionals dance very cool milongas with enrosques and lapices ripped right out of salon tango. I've seen them fit classic milonga movements flawlessly into a vals. And so on. Adapting a step to the music is more impressive to me than hanging on to steps that somebody somewhere insists go with the music "because history."

It's true that "milonga isn't just fast tango," but not for reasons of steps. It isn't just fast tango because the steps are executed differently due to the time signature and emotion of the music being totally different. Emphasis here on emotion: "Tango is for the sad times, vals is for the romantic times, and milonga is for the happy times." Also, milonga that doesn't retain at least a little candombe hip-rolling looks constipated and sad – so much for the happy times.

Vals adds another complication that's often overlooked, which is that it flows such that the dancers should be constantly advancing in an almost relentless way. It has drive. You can't see the music if the dancers are parking in place. This strongly suggests that you remove certain steps, like the parada, but that isn't strict. A cadena de paradas can fly down the floor, too, which illustrates why I'm skeptical of claims that some step doesn't "belong" in one of the three tango-family dances.

My own fun is sticking huge off-axis movements into milongas. As my coach says, "A small departure from the traditional looks like a mistake. A huge one is daring people to call you out on your musicality. Go big or go home."

 

[JournalInTime]

I think it's really important in tango, and especially vals and milonga, not to pull a Barry Fife from Strictly Ballroom: "There are no new steps!", "Where do you think we'd be if everyone went around making up their own steps?", etc. Also from that film: "A life lived in fear is a life half lived." Daring to put whatever steps you like on the music is what keeps the dance from becoming a museum exhibit. Just do it well, so you don't turn it into a slapstick act.

 

[TTanguero]

Face: A smile.

This could be the defining factor:

Milonga: Big grin
Vals: Dreamy expression
Tango: Look like someone just shot your dog on the same day you got an unexpected tax demand

 

[pianistamediano]

which is that it flows such that the dancers should be constantly advancing in an almost relentless way.

I sincerely wish unending stubbed toes and bountiful papercuts on leaders who don't keep the ronda moving most of the time during a vals tanda. One does get tired (and dizzy) of overly circular movements after a while.

Perhaps the occasional Ritual of Percussive Maintenance performed on their noggins...

Or maybe I should just keep dancing uncomfortably close to them. If it keeps the ronda moving, I'm willing to play the game of bumper cars with my own body, but I draw the line at sucking chest wounds from flying heels.

I've been gravitating towards the middle of the pista more and more often nowadays; seems like it's the opposite here, where the outermost ronda is near stationary, and the centre is safest (!) and occasionally has enough space for me to travel.

 

[Rabbit]

And as I implied, who gets to hand out the "traditional" label, anyway? I've seen big-name professionals dance very cool milongas with enrosques and lapices ripped right out of salon tango. I've seen them fit classic milonga movements flawlessly into a vals. And so on. Adapting a step to the music is more impressive to me than hanging on to steps that somebody somewhere insists go with the music "because history."

The question isn't whether a step is "traditional" - I consciously delete all such opinions and reformulate everything from first principles - but whether it actually feels right with the music.

 

[pianistamediano]

Tango: Look like someone just shot your dog on the same day you got an unexpected tax demand

Ah yes, my favourite pastime at milongas, dancing a tanda with HMRC's finest taxi auditor...

 

[JournalInTime]

The question isn't whether a step is "traditional" - I consciously delete all such opinions and reformulate everything from first principles - but whether it actually feels right with the music.

This distills exactly what I was trying (if not succeeding) to say by:

If I can see the music, then you're dancing that music in a way that's correct for you. I must concede that it is musical, even if it isn't correct for me or according to some random teacher or master somewhere, and even if it isn't strictly traditional (who decides what's "traditional" is another argument). I am not obligated to dance your way, but I have no right to say, "You aren't dancing a tango/vals/milonga.​

and:

It's true that "milonga isn't just fast tango," but not for reasons of steps. It isn't just fast tango because the steps are executed differently due to the time signature and emotion of the music being totally different. Emphasis here on emotion: "Tango is for the sad times, vals is for the romantic times, and milonga is for the happy times." Also, milonga that doesn't retain at least a little candombe hip-rolling looks constipated and sad – so much for the happy times.​

 

[JournalInTime]

One does get tired (and dizzy) of overly circular movements after a while.

Vals can be danced linearly or circularly. The idea that it must turn is common but not necessary. What's necessary is that it must advance, which is equally workable for linear and circular movements.

My current pet peeve – which comes up most often during vals tandas, I'll grant – is the notion that turns are mostly static figures. I totally fail to understand where this comes from. Sure, cadenas are technically challenging, but walking, progressive turns were the first turns I learned, in what my tango school called "level 1." The static, salon-style madness with gigantic follower orbits around a static leader who's doing lapices and enrosques came at the tail end of what that school called "level 3," and took until "level 6" to reach peak insanity.

So, in my mind, turns that advance with simple partner walks around one another are basic while turns in place that demand giant follower steps and crazy leader axis control are advanced showpieces.

Or maybe I should just keep dancing uncomfortably close to them.

That's my current strategy.

I was taught a simple rule: The space behind a couple belongs to them only while at least one of their four feet remains in it. As soon as zero feet are there, that space is ceded to the couple behind them, who can move into it without violating tango etiquette. So, I move into it.

After going on 11 years of 15-20 hours/week dancing, I have sufficient control to advance during almost any movement at short notice, to eat the smallest space given in front of me. I don't tailgate moving leaders . . . that does violate tango etiquette. But static leaders who think they can lead their follower out of the space between us and then back into it, over and over, find me in that space as soon as their follower vacates it.

Anyone advanced enough to lead fancy turns where they're spinning in place, sweeping their free leg around, and whatnot is clearly 5 levels advanced enough to lead their turns progressing down the floor.

 

[pianistamediano]

But static leaders who think they can lead their follower out of the space between us and then back into it, over and over, find me in that space as soon as their follower vacates it.

My favourite strategy! I pounce at every possible opportunity to do so, often turning my back to them immediately afterwards to protect my follower.

 

[JournalInTime]

A few organizers and teachers here have the spine to say something about floorcraft as part of their evening announcements (there are always evening announcements to advertise classes, events, visiting teachers, etc.). The generally mention the cabeceo between leaders to enter, the existence of multiple lanes, and the need to choose one rather than cut from one to the other. Unfortunately, none mention – and few respect when dancing – that the dance should advance. So, we have lots of parkers and back-and-forthers who feel they're doing nothing wrong, because the teachers set bad examples through their lack of words and their actions.

I go out of my way to respect all of these rules:

• Always use the cabeceo between leaders to enter, even if the approaching leader is distant, or even if the first N leaders are clueless and I must wait out half a tango to get onto the floor.
• Always pick and stay in a lane. Mine is the outside lane.
• Always advance, even if that means "stealing" space that someone figured they could use for back-and-forth.
• Only go back against the line of dance after a movement that lets me turn my head enough to see behind me has confirmed that the nearest couple would need 4-5 of their longest strides to reach me.

I've noticed that many leaders are in fact clueless about the cabeceo between leaders, and react badly to my gaze; drift from lane to lane, and react badly to me actively blocking that; park or reverse, and react badly to me actively blocking that; and never look around before going someplace, and react badly to me looking at them when I do so. "React badly" is anything from a glare, to words to their partner that are loud enough for me to hear, to an attempted shove, to bad-talking me later. I don't care.

Several other leaders who do this work with me to create a "train" that's difficult or impossible to resist.

The clueless leaders aren't always malicious. Aside from "just following the example of the teachers," they're often gazing at their partner or their feet instead of looking where they're going. I suspect they just don't have the technique to look toward future locations while their body is in the present doing stuff sight unseen. However, those who clearly do and ignore the rules anyway are automatically malicious in my book. If you can dance 1,001 fancy steps fluidly, you've been around for long enough to know etiquette.