How to Interpret Precedes and Follows in the WDSF Books

[caw]

In the new WDSF Books, precedes and follows are set up in a chart (picture provided). Every figure is listed top to bottom on the left, and every figure is listed right to left along the top. When two figures intersect, that means that the figure found in the left column would precede the one found in the top margin.

If the intersection of the two figures is left blank, this combination is not possible.

If the intersection is orange, this combination is possible, but you have to change something about the figures to make it happen. For example, if you wanted to follow an Open Promenade with a Rock Back on LF, the Rock would have to be danced OP.

If the intersection is purple, the combination is possible without having to change anything, except maybe direction.

My question is this: How do you know what about the figures has to change in the instance of an orange intersection. The pages where the figures are described doesn't say anything about alternate methods, so it seems you just have to know. Here is an example (not shown in the picture provided). The Reverse Pivot may follow a Back Corte, but it is orange. Logically, it could only possibly follow step 1 or 3, and step 1 makes the most sense, but how do you know for sure, and can a couple be invigilated for doing it wrong?

 

[Joe]

In the case of Tango, it seems primarily the direction that must be tweaked. If you care to post the Waltz or Foxtrot pages, that might better inform.

 

[Mengu]

Two good questions caw. I'm not sure how the two steps are described in the book, but my first inclination would be to use open finish for the back corte, change the fourth step of the back corte into a quick, and dance the reverse pivot on a quick after the fourth step going forward. That seems to be the smallest amount of change to the step (basically just changing the last step to a quick). I would check to see if reverse pivot is allowed after other steps with a possible open finish (on the page after the one you posted), and if so, I'd guess that this was their intent. If that is not the case, or if they don't describe the reverse pivot going forward, then it's probably danced after the first step of the back corte.

As for invigilation, I have no idea how that's going to happen at USADance at this point, particularly since you can intermingle ISTD and WDSF syllabi, and as you noted the WDSF precedes and follows are already somewhat nebulous with the undescribed transitions.

 

[caw]

In the case of Tango, it seems primarily the direction that must be tweaked. If you care to post the Waltz or Foxtrot pages, that might better inform.

No, the purple is for ones that you only change direction for. Orange means you change something about the figures beyond direction. I could post Waltz if you wanted, but it's the same thing.

Two good questions caw. I'm not sure how the two steps are described in the book, but my first inclination would be to use open finish for the back corte, change the fourth step of the back corte into a quick, and dance the reverse pivot on a quick after the fourth step going forward. That seems to be the smallest amount of change to the step (basically just changing the last step to a quick). I would check to see if reverse pivot is allowed after other steps with a possible open finish (on the page after the one you posted), and if so, I'd guess that this was their intent. If that is not the case, or if they don't describe the reverse pivot going forward, then it's probably danced after the first step of the back corte.

I think there's some misunderstanding. The Reverse Pivot is RF back turning up to 1/2 to L for Man. It couldn't possibly happen after step 4, even if taken OP and counted Q, because you'd be on the wrong foot. This just demonstrates what I'm saying - the book doesn't give clear directions on how to fudge these two figures together when they are orange precedes/follows.

 

[Mengu]

I think there's some misunderstanding. The Reverse Pivot is RF back turning up to 1/2 to L for Man. It couldn't possibly happen after step 4, even if taken OP and counted Q, because you'd be on the wrong foot.

That's why I asked how the reverse pivot is described. It can be danced RF back turning left OR LF forward turning left (they are the two halves of reverse pivots). If RF back is the only option given then yeah, it probably comes after the first step of the back corte (beats 1,2), probably holding the 3, and pivoting on 4. It is unfortunate they would allow the back half but not the front half of reverse pivots, as they are pretty fundamental.

 

[caw]

It is unfortunate they would allow the back half but not the front half of reverse pivots, as they are pretty fundamental.

Actually, even in the ISTD they never allow the forward half of the Reverse Pivot, which they call a "Pivotting Action" as opposed to a Pivot. Idk why don't ask me.

 

[Angel HI]

.....which they call a "Pivotting Action" as opposed to a Pivot. Idk why don't ask me.

Because by dance definition, a 'Pivot' is a backward rotation danced on the spot. When dancing a pivot, only the partner whom is turning backward is dancing the actual pivot. The partner dancing forward is; 1- dancing forward (not a pivot by definition), and -2- swivels on the forward foot and allows the back foot/leg to 'slip' slightly outward in the direction of the turn (an action not executed in the pivot). Thus, this while one partner is dancing the pivot, the other dances a Pivot Action.

Back to the orig. subject... great questions, and posts. I agree.

 

[Angel HI]

But pivot actions don't happen for the bwd moving person in a reverse pivot, because the integrity of the partnership is not compromised.

True, in either case. I was merely replying to his question of where the term came from. Perhaps should have mentioned your point.

 

[Loki]

Couldn't help but think of a chimp on speed with a box of colored pencils. Not a slam on the graph, just my own twisted thought process today. BOT!

 

[DrDoug]

Couldn't help but think of a chimp on speed with a box of colored pencils.

I'll wager you're not the first person to think of that image in conjunction with the WDSF . . . .