How to Practice Leading Without a Follower?

[tangomonkey]

... in the original post in another thread, my statement quoted in the OP here had an asterisk after 'steps' (and 'moves'), leading to something like 'for want of better terms... you know what I mean.'
I'm thinking more in terms of: 'So... what if I decide to try to move her there, doing... this, in one count... seems OK from where I'm standing.'

Assumes follower's position and attempts this...

'Oops - to get to there, she'll have to do this or this first, so it'll take two counts to be comfortable for her (and what I'd initially imagined would have made her fall over!..).'

Just working out the possible options and timings, rather than patterns.

That was my understanding from your post in the other thread. Should have included the footnote and more of the text. My bad. Here it is:

...Re: womens' steps*: yup, employed that from the first second of learning. In class, I always repeat the followers' steps, as the teacher is demonstrating (once I've got the leaders' part down... which is usually pretty minimal); and when practicing at home (on my own), flip myself 180 and do her steps at a 2-3:1 ratio to mine.
It gives me a better idea of how much time she needs to settle after certain moves*, how much space she has to step into and what I should be doing with my body to assist her etc.

*For want of better terms... you know what I mean.

I've been practicing on my own and can say that doing the followers steps has helped me better understand the timing, range of motion (direction and length) of the step/moves. Not so I can judge my partner(s) and tell them they are doing them wrong, but to become a better and more responsive, intuitive leader.

If I read Angel HI correctly the step/move should be be thought of as the combination of the lead and follow. If I lead a back ocho, the move, and my participation and awareness, is not done until the follower completes it.

Am I making progress?

PS. Are there better terms or phrasing for "step" and "move"?

 

[Zoopsia59]

Thanks for explaining to me how to follow since I've obviously been very confused over the last 7 years and several trips to BA.

I was actually referring to the posts where they were referring specifically to steps and walking through the follower's part on their own. I maintain that if you are practicing how to lead something it's difficult to practice alone or without prop especially since these people are total beginners.

Why are you being touchy?

Nobody gave ANY instruction on how to follow that I could see, and no one specifically singled you out for instruction in anything at all.

Some of us are trying to clarify the posts we have written or that others have written that we might find misleading. Why are you taking it personally? If there is any "instruction" in the thread, it's for the person who actually asked for it by starting the thread.

If you are a follower, why are you taking issue with advice being given to leaders as though it's meant for you personally as a follower?

I really don't get the attitude and sarcasm.

 

[AndaBien]

... Are there better terms or phrasing for "step" and "move"?

In my mind, a step is a predefined thing that one does with their feet, whereas a move is something that one does with their body and it usually requires footwork.

A friend of mine likes to say that "moves are not caused by steps; steps are the result of movements."

 

[v22TTC]

Tangomonkey: No bad at all Sir! I was just clarifying for jfm... 'better terms or phrasing' you say? I'd let go of that little hope as soon as possible, if I were you.

Ah, it all adds to TA's charm and (multiple-)personality(/ies)....

By the way, if I might just perch on the running-board of this thread for a second:-

Zoopsia: Since we've had the poles, there was a folded arms solo exercise that you mentioned in one of your solid-gold posts to Mario, back in the day... but I haven't seen the original explanation for what that exercise is... and have been dying for an opportunity to ask - would you mind telling us again?:applause:

 

[Zoopsia59]

In my mind, a step is a predefined thing that one does with their feet, whereas a move is something that one does with their body and it usually requires footwork.

A friend of mine likes to say that "moves are not caused by steps; steps are the result of movements."

To me, the steps are as you say, but the "move" is the whole shebang. Moving means you just led something (whether you meant to or not) So the "move" is the same as the "lead". The step is not the lead.

Basically, You move - you lead.

 

[tangomonkey]

In my mind, a step is a predefined thing that one does with their feet, whereas a move is something that one does with their body and it usually requires footwork.

A friend of mine likes to say that "moves are not caused by steps; steps are the result of movements."

I like that.

When you talked about dancing with poles (NOT pole dancing!), did you have in mind something like opendoor's YouTube clip? I think my wife and children would have me committed if they caught me in a room doing that by myself...

 

[AndaBien]

...When you talked about dancing with poles (NOT pole dancing!), did you have in mind something like opendoor's YouTube clip? I think my wife and children would have me committed if they caught me in a room doing that by myself...

Pole dancing with a single, 1 in. dia. piece of PVC, not fixed to anything, would be ....

... anyway, that video seemed like a performance, but yes, that's just what I mean. I also use poles to work out new ideas I may have, to try to understand the details.

Actually, my poles have little plastic shoes, with pink bows and high-heels, on the ends.

 

[Dave Bailey]

In my mind, a step is a predefined thing that one does with their feet, whereas a move is something that one does with their body and it usually requires footwork.

A friend of mine likes to say that "moves are not caused by steps; steps are the result of movements."

I agree with that, but I'm experimenting with using "figure" rather than "move" - as "move" is a bit ambiguous I think. Or even "sequence".

 

[caminito]

Hello to all members.
I have been reading the forum for a long time and yesterday decided to join the group .
During my eleven years of dancing tango , I have seen many changes in AT here in the UK. The number of people dancing AT here has increased enormously. The standard of dancing has improved a little ? Not as much has it should have done , with the amount of classes , teachers , visiting "maestros" and places to dance any day of the week.
Eleven years ago we were taught the "basic eight" and figures. As a lifelong dancer of many styles , I felt completely restricted for the first few months. I was so concentrating on the next "step" that I had been taught that I could not feel the music.
I decided that to become a decent leader , I would have to relax and "dance who I am ". My solution was to spend a couple of hours every evening , playing the great orchestras , often with a glass of red wine or brandy to relax me and just move to the music . No defined steps or figures ,just moving to the music . No partner or props.
I discovered that D'Arienzo and Pugliese made me feel and move differently.
I felt as though the shackles had been released.
I haven't taken a lesson since 2004 .Though I watch other dancers on the floor and if I see something that I like then sometimes that movement ( or part of it ) finds it's way into my leading .
People who have insired me are Ricardo Vidort, Tete , Omar Vega and three ladies who I have danced with here and in BsAs.
We should not try to be a clone of our teachers but just take the ideas and adapt them to suit us as individuals .
We do not all have the same flexibility, balance , musicality etc as each other . We are individuals and should remember that.
Use and adapt to suit yourself but above all " dance who you are " !

 

[opendoor]

Re: ..dance who you are

Hi Caminito, welcome here !

 

[Steve Pastor]

Welcome, caminito.

I haven't taken a lesson since 2004 .Though I watch other dancers on the floor and if I see something that I like then sometimes that movement ( or part of it ) finds it's way into my leading .

Yeah, that's about the time I stopped with the lessons after 2 1/2 years of fairly intense study. Most of what I see on the floor will jog my memory about something that I used to do, or had in a lesson. By no means all, though!
When I start again, I will go to some lessons though, to work on basics after a year of concentrating on West Coast Swing.

 

[Angel HI]

hmmmm............