How to teach floor craft ?

[Gssh]

Something like that is missing in tango - the expectations are higher - and with three years of experience (talented) or ten years of experience (untalented) it can be fulfilled pretty well ... by leaders.

I think if you need floocraft then it's better to practice that while dancing as a focus for a time than attending a workshop. But actually the problem seems to me to be that most leaders avoid looking at each other on the dance floor and while dancing anyway. A non-attack behavior that makes sense in an elevator, but not in tango.

This - if students don't actually expect to be dancing a social dance how do we expect these skills to just suddenly appear. I don't think that the expectations are actually higher - what seems to be happening is more that dancers are expected to use excellent couple dance skills to replace social dance skills. Sure, somebody who has ten years of experience as a dancer will be able to survive in a ronda, especially if they have some basic ruled how it is supposed to work, but it is not going to be a fun experience. I think we need people to either be on a social dancefloor, or at least see a social dancefloor and being told "this is what all the technique is in the end _for_" as early as possible.
I used to say that the minimum vocabulary necessary to get on the dancefloor was walking+rocksteps. I am now a bit unsure of this, as rocksteps as danced by beginners can be very rough, and they require quite a bit of nuanced timing to feel good, but i have not found anything that would easily replace them in terms of versatility for navigation/pausing/robustness. (And yes, i know that pausing is a important part of the tango vocabulary, but for beginners who are unsure about their connection and their connection with the music i find that something that keeps the couple in the pulse of the music is easier).

 

[JournalInTime]

if students don't actually expect to be dancing a social dance how do we expect these skills to just suddenly appear.

Exactly!

Some students truly don't expect to be dancing a social dance. They come to Argentine tango with visions of dancing like a couple on a competitive dance show that sometimes throws tango into the mix without more explanation than "that sexy Argentine dance" or similar. (That describes the majority in some classes I've accompanied!) Then they realize that some of their teachers, the studio, the studio's events, etc. are all about a social dance, so they show up at a milonga to "get their money's worth" and proceed to be a catastrophe on four legs.

what seems to be happening is more that dancers are expected to use excellent couple dance skills to replace social dance skills.

And teachers who are performers are guilty of encouraging this, thereby enabling the catastrophe I just mentioned. That's why I said "some of their teachers" and not simply "their teachers" above.

I used to say that the minimum vocabulary necessary to get on the dancefloor was walking+rocksteps.

I stand by my remarks that the basic survival steps (after walking!) are the walking, parallel system turn in place in both directions. It doesn't matter whether the follower's steps are a molinete, or front-side-front-side, or just a forward walk; teaching such differences can come much later, as can sacadas, enrosques, lapices, agujas, etc. for the leader. Because the simplest turns are just walking – no rocking, downleads, upleads, axis shifts, intrusions, interruptions, or anything else that can be unbalancing. They allow something to happen when the ronda stops, and in my experience accompanying hundreds of beginners, they're better led and better followed than rocking movements, which are either too rough or too subtle.

It isn't rocket science: "Leaders, turn in place, doing whatever your feet need to do to let you turn; just make sure that if your feet move, it's with the music. Followers, do whatever walk you need to do to stay in front of the leader, also walking on the music. That's a turn."

But for some reason, most classes insist on teaching specific leader and follower footwork, some of it quite complex, that conceals the fact that most tango turns are "leader spinning in place, follower walking around." Yes, there are mutual turns, progressive turns, cadenas, etc. where nobody stays in place, but who needs those to start with? Though turns where the follower stays in place and the leader moves are sadly neglected, too; I'm thinking less of calesitas than of ruedas, which are stupidly easy ("Stand on two feet while the leader walks around you.").

 

[itwillhappen]

I think of the milonga / the group dance as one of the defining characteristics of tango, and one that should be acknowledged and cherished. Somewhere else i said that for me somebody who does pure stage performance tango with their partner, and never sets foot into a milonga is very much in the grey area of "somewhere between tango and not-tango", and i am leaning more into the direction of non-tango at the moment. It is like the question if olympic 10m air-rifle is hunting - sure, it is a highly refined form of some aspect of the technical skills required for hunting, but for me this isolated high level skill is detached enough from the application to make the relationship tenuous. And when i say that i am not sure i want to take a gold medalist deer hunting i am not slighting their athleticism, their skill, or the effort it took them to be able to do what they do, but i am questioning if what they do is the same as what i do.

Here in Germany, most beginners start with group classes. And many were in a dance school with sweet little sixteen, they intuitively know that "standard" (foxtrot, tango, waltz) is danced counterclockwise, "latin" (cha-cha, salsa, rumba) is danced on the spot. This atavism does not get questioned. And of course you don't try to run into other couples in a class either.

I am now also more inclined to see boxing as an analogy in sport. "They never come back" -
so after a so perceived knock-out, a successful restart may no longer be possible, but still technical training on the punching bag.
Or with driving lessons, in which the driving instructor stands in the middle with a megaphone while two beginners in one car try to get around the corners, however. It may then take a long time for relaxed road users to emerge.

I read something about a TV show below the video from Finland in the 80's. Maybe there was an entertainer and some alcohol to relax the crowd and make the recording work?

 

[LadyLeader]

I read something about a TV show below the video from Finland in the 80's. Maybe there was an entertainer and some alcohol to relax the crowd and make the recording work?

I think we are watching the show and the entertainer!

It was quite popular to have TV visiting famous outdoor dance places and I could think the audience was bigger than usual. At least that time drinking was part of the party but I suppose that because of TV the organizer had better control of the private bottles and leaders who had problems standing up were taken care of behind the camera.

 

[Gssh]

I am now also more inclined to see boxing as an analogy in sport. "They never come back" -
so after a so perceived knock-out, a successful restart may no longer be possible, but still technical training on the punching bag.

Or with driving lessons, in which the driving instructor stands in the middle with a megaphone while two beginners in one car try to get around the corners, however. It may then take a long time for relaxed road users to emerge.

My boxing analogy would be more that tango teaching does only technical training, and students think that the highest form of boxing is speedbag and fancy jump rope, and then they suddenly get tossed into their first spar. Some will be able to translate the physical skills, and some might to enjoy it, but i think the majority will be quite surprised at what is going on.

Or with driving lessons getting lessons by a stunt man on an large empty parking lot, and learning drifting, and 180 turns, and all kinds of specialized driving skills, and then are asked to leave the parking lot and go drive somewhere on public streets with traffic, and traffic signals.

It is not so much that what is learned is not useful, but that the thing that people learn as tango, and the thing people do at milongas are closely related, but different things. And tango technique is useful for ronda technique, but not exactly the same thing. It is possible to fake ronda technique by using tango technique, but it is stressful and tiring. It is the difference between knowing how to read defenders/the field or being a so much better player that one wins all 2-on-1, and 3-on-1 match ups.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

But actually the problem seems to me to be that most leaders avoid looking at each other on the dance floor and while dancing anyway.

You need situational awareness to dance well at a milonga. Especially a crowded one.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

It isn't rocket science: "Leaders, turn in place, doing whatever your feet need to do to let you turn; just make sure that if your feet move, it's with the music. Followers, do whatever walk you need to do to stay in front of the leader, also walking on the music. That's a turn."

That's actually not bad advice and about what it boils down to in the end.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

But for some reason, most classes insist on teaching specific leader and follower footwork, some of it quite complex, that conceals the fact that most tango turns are "leader spinning in place, follower walking around."

I suspect it's for two reasons: 1. to get people in the habit of making certain movements that can be danced without too much difficulty, and 2. to give them some basic vocabulary to work with. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The idea that tango is all basically walking with some other stuff thrown in is not an easy concept to grasp at first and most beginners would have no idea how to implement the idea to make something coherent with it. That is, something they could dance.

 

[Gssh]

It isn't rocket science: "Leaders, turn in place, doing whatever your feet need to do to let you turn; just make sure that if your feet move, it's with the music. Followers, do whatever walk you need to do to stay in front of the leader, also walking on the music. That's a turn."

I agree big picture wise, but i have found that beginners have trouble getting out of turns comfortably - i can teach walk+rockstep as 1hr milonga mini-introduction, but walk+giro requires more. One of the other alternatives that is the calesita - but where a turn requires more leader technique to leave the figure a calesita requires more follower technique to stay comfortably in it.