I am jealous about my wife going for dance competition

[RiseNFall]

As far as intimacy I have read many opinions in dance forum and most of them conclude that physical closeness/intimacy (as separate from sexuality)is necessary between partners to achieve high levels of dance art.
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I feel like she is going on a date - my most primitive deepest subconscious male instinct cannot get over it.
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I will follow your advise and will look for additional psychological/psychiatric help.

OP, I am quite impressed with you--with your openness and insights into yourself. As this thread started, I wondered if the forum has actually been able to help anyone with these issues; we frequently don't hear back from the OP. I'll just reiterate for you that the whole "his leg between her leg" thing is all very technical and physically not at all sensual. I promise!

 

[fiesta0618]

I think you're mistaken here. Pro-am instruction can improve female students faster than it can improve male students.

I guess I missed some nuance in my post. One person will indeed learn faster on an hour-by-hour basis than someone else. The "slower" person can still close the gap, though, if they practice, say, twice as many hours. This is what I've had to do in my competitive partnership.

It's a lot of work, and you need to deeply and honestly WANT to do it. This isn't a one-size prescription for everyone. I merely intended to express that, until you attain extremely high levels, skill is usually more of a time and interest problem than a physical or talent-based one. But perceiving acquired skill as innate is pretty common, and it can discourage folks who otherwise would put in the time and effort, so I attack the notion whenever I can.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

- Do you draw fulfillment from dancing, self-affirmation and translation?

- I fear not, but your wife does.

I'm not sure where you're getting this. They have danced together for 20 years and both started taking it more seriously 3 years ago. That he wasn't progressing as fast as she was is to be expected given normal rates of progress for leads and follows.

- Inbetween, you have learned the basics of an effortless posture, intentional leading and improvising.

Argentine tango must be a lot different from what I was familiar with, if you learn posture from it now. Agreed on the other things.

 

[opendoor]

Why do you think Przemyslaw's wife's dreams will shatter in 6 months?

I intuitively guess. Lets revive this thread in june !

 

[Warren J. Dew]

I guess I missed some nuance in my post. One person will indeed learn faster on an hour-by-hour basis than someone else. The "slower" person can still close the gap, though, if they practice, say, twice as many hours. This is what I've had to do in my competitive partnership.

That's fair. In a pro-am situation, though, he'd also have to take twice as many lessons as she would. I'm not sure how well that would go over, though if she's really taking pro-am because his progress is "too slow", she should be okay with it as a way to get his progress up to speed. It may well be that she'd really prefer to be dancing with him, if only he would progress as fast as her.

I merely intended to express that, until you attain extremely high levels, skill is usually more of a time and interest problem than a physical or talent-based one. But perceiving acquired skill as innate is pretty common, and it can discourage folks who otherwise would put in the time and effort, so I attack the notion whenever I can.

Agreed. In fact, the physical and "talent" aspects of ballroom can also be trained to a large extent.

 

[raindance]

That's fair. In a pro-am situation, though, he'd also have to take twice as many lessons as she would. I'm not sure how well that would go over, though if she's really taking pro-am because his progress is "too slow", she should be okay with it as a way to get his progress up to speed. It may well be that she'd really prefer to be dancing with him, if only he would progress as fast as her.

Agreed. In fact, the physical and "talent" aspects of ballroom can also be trained to a large extent.

I agree with you in general. But I do think there is a difference between him trying to progress as fast as her, or at least as fast as possible for him, and him trying to become good enough that she prefers dancing with him to dancing with her pro from a dance perspective (technique, leading ability, variety of figures mastered, floorcraft, etc, etc). This will depend highly on her (and their) dance goals. Also on whether she likes all the focus on her in lessons, or whether she is interested in learning more together with her husband as a team, etc.

If she wants to enjoy dancing as well as possible with her husband, and is willing to support his dance growth along the way, that's great. And your comments and fiestas are a good guide to the approach he could take to try to improve his dancing as quickly as possible for him, if he wishes to do so.

But if she's just looking to advance her own dancing as quickly as possible, get onto the competition floor with an experienced partner, etc, pro-am will get her there a whole lot faster, on average, and she probably already realizes this. (Since OP says they've been married 20 years, I'm guessing middle aged OP and middle aged wife, and quite possibly younger and very skilled dance pro. Pro skill levels vary a lot of course, this is just what I'm picturing in my minds eye as an average pro-am situation.)

So all of this is one of the reasons I suggested OP and his wife sit down and have a thorough talk about their dance goals - each of them individually, as well as the two of them together. It could be that by having a good discussion about their goals, that she might come around to realize that he wants her to enjoy dancing ... and that in particular he really hopes they can continue to enjoy dancing as a couple. Perhaps she'd be willing to focus her dance efforts there, perhaps after this competition is completed. Or perhaps not. But I think they need to discuss it.

OP, are you at all interested in competition or showcase dancing with your wife? Would that be a possible direction for the two of you to pursue together? What are your personal dance goals, for yourself, and for you and your wife?

 

[raindance]

As for the jealousy issues, OP - I'm certainly no expert here. But just a few thoughts.

Can you turn things around in your head a bit? Can you enjoy seeing your wife dressed up and looking great for the competition? Do you enjoy seeing her all dressed up for other occasions?

Can you enjoy watching her dance beautifully for an audience? When she is dancing with someone else, you get to watch her and enjoy seeing her look beautiful and dance well in front of others. Can you elbow the friend next to you and say, wow, doesn't my wife look great out there (her appearance as well as her dancing), I'm so proud of her?

Can you go out together and celebrate afterwards? A nice dinner, or whatever, that night or sometime soon after (for example if the competition is late in the day, dinner may not be practical that night), so that the competition becomes something she does, but that you celebrate together?

 

[Warren J. Dew]

I agree with you in general. But I do think there is a difference between him trying to progress as fast as her, or at least as fast as possible for him, and him trying to become good enough that she prefers dancing with him to dancing with her pro from a dance perspective (technique, leading ability, variety of figures mastered, floorcraft, etc, etc). This will depend highly on her (and their) dance goals. Also on whether she likes all the focus on her in lessons, or whether she is interested in learning more together with her husband as a team, etc.

I agree there's a difference. I'm taking the original post at face value; it said she started pro am lessons because he wasn't progressing fast enough, not because she enjoyed dancing with someone a lot better than she is.

It's possible that she has since changed her mind, or that he misunderstood. However, if he were to take the "take twice as many lessons to progress as fast" approach, I'm pretty sure those issues would come out in discussion about why he needs twice as many lessons as she does.

I don't think a "thorough talk about dance goals" between the two of them is likely to do much good. The underlying issue is a relationship issue, not a dance partnership issue. They've been married for 20 years. They've talked. Maybe they haven't listened. But that calls for a discussion with a professional that can facilitate the discussion - a marriage counselor - not a discussion about dance goals. It's not like their problem is a disagreement on whether they want to be world champions or just national champions.

 

[Przemyslaw]

I agree with you in general. But I do think there is a difference between him trying to progress as fast as her, or at least as fast as possible for him, and him trying to become good enough that she prefers dancing with him to dancing with her pro from a dance perspective (technique, leading ability, variety of figures mastered, floorcraft, etc, etc). This will depend highly on her (and their) dance goals. Also on whether she likes all the focus on her in lessons, or whether she is interested in learning more together with her husband as a team, etc.

If she wants to enjoy dancing as well as possible with her husband, and is willing to support his dance growth along the way, that's great. And your comments and fiestas are a good guide to the approach he could take to try to improve his dancing as quickly as possible for him, if he wishes to do so.

But if she's just looking to advance her own dancing as quickly as possible, get onto the competition floor with an experienced partner, etc, pro-am will get her there a whole lot faster, on average, and she probably already realizes this. (Since OP says they've been married 20 years, I'm guessing middle aged OP and middle aged wife, and quite possibly younger and very skilled dance pro. Pro skill levels vary a lot of course, this is just what I'm picturing in my minds eye as an average pro-am situation.)

So all of this is one of the reasons I suggested OP and his wife sit down and have a thorough talk about their dance goals - each of them individually, as well as the two of them together. It could be that by having a good discussion about their goals, that she might come around to realize that he wants her to enjoy dancing ... and that in particular he really hopes they can continue to enjoy dancing as a couple. Perhaps she'd be willing to focus her dance efforts there, perhaps after this competition is completed. Or perhaps not. But I think they need to discuss it.

OP, are you at all interested in competition or showcase dancing with your wife? Would that be a possible direction for the two of you to pursue together? What are your personal dance goals, for yourself, and for you and your wife?

I did some showcases in our club and was very pleased as we get comments that we dance well as a couple.
As far as dancing goals- my goal was to dance together to strengthen our partnership bond beyond just living together and having kids. I was looking for a hobby we can continue together for many years until we get really old. I did not think about competitions. My wife did not mention competitive dancing until recently. I guess it was her teacher who came with this idea (I understand this- this is the way how they earn their salary).
At this point I am so sad that I am even thinking to stop dancing altogether. I lost my motivation....

 

[Przemyslaw]

I agree there's a difference. I'm taking the original post at face value; it said she started pro am lessons because he wasn't progressing fast enough, not because she enjoyed dancing with someone a lot better than she is.

It's possible that she has since changed her mind, or that he misunderstood. However, if he were to take the "take twice as many lessons to progress as fast" approach, I'm pretty sure those issues would come out in discussion about why he needs twice as many lessons as she does.

I don't think a "thorough talk about dance goals" between the two of them is likely to do much good. The underlying issue is a relationship issue, not a dance partnership issue. They've been married for 20 years. They've talked. Maybe they haven't listened. But that calls for a discussion with a professional that can facilitate the discussion - a marriage counselor - not a discussion about dance goals. It's not like their problem is a disagreement on whether they want to be world champions or just national champions.

I really like your suggestion. I will look for help with marriage counseling. Thank you.

 

[Przemyslaw]

As for the jealousy issues, OP - I'm certainly no expert here. But just a few thoughts.

Can you turn things around in your head a bit? Can you enjoy seeing your wife dressed up and looking great for the competition? Do you enjoy seeing her all dressed up for other occasions?

Can you enjoy watching her dance beautifully for an audience? When she is dancing with someone else, you get to watch her and enjoy seeing her look beautiful and dance well in front of others. Can you elbow the friend next to you and say, wow, doesn't my wife look great out there (her appearance as well as her dancing), I'm so proud of her?

Can you go out together and celebrate afterwards? A nice dinner, or whatever, that night or sometime soon after (for example if the competition is late in the day, dinner may not be practical that night), so that the competition becomes something she does, but that you celebrate together?

The main problem I have is that I cannot control my emotions and "turn it around" as you suggest. In my mind I see my wife getting into beautiful dress and going for a day that she will spend in arms of other man- it is almost like she is going on a date with him and I am hopeless spectator watching it from distance. Hearing possible comments that they look/dance as beautiful couple would top off my frustration. After that I will be sour and sad- definitely not in mood for happy dinner with my wife.

I am not the type that gets satisfaction from showing off my wife with other man at her side.

I know I am hopeless cause of jealous husband...

 

[lucia_l]

I was looking for a hobby we can continue together for many years until we get really old. [...]
At this point I am so sad that I am even thinking to stop dancing altogether. I lost my motivation....

This is sounding a bit different from before.

I know much of what my husband likes about dancing is the thought of dancing with me... for many years until we get really old. So the question I have for you (and which you might want to explore with yourself) is whether your real inner fear is that this dancing dream goes away if she moves into competitive dancing, becomes used to much flashier dancing than you are able to do and so you are no longer dancing together? And if so, they your hope of dancing together when you are old would seem to be vanishing?

That's somewhat different from the physical jealousy issue (and of course, these things aren't always either/or.)

Anyway, if your fodest hope is to dance together, I would actually suggest going out of your way to find and attend social dance events. I don't know what's available near you. But around my home, it's possible to find bars that have bands that pay swing/salsa/hustle and various club dances. There are also studios that have friday or saturday night practices. I would suggest finding these and trying to schedule a "dance date" at least once a week with your wife. You could, in addition, organize any lessons you take around improving your ability to dance the social dances that fit your dance dates. ( For example: there is no way I could find argentine tango dance events in bars around here. But East or West coast swing, night club 2, cha cha, salsa and most club dances are easy to find.)

It wouldn't hurt to organize going with some other couples either.

This might not solve your jealous feelings when she dances with her pro. But if you are going out regularly, and dancing, it might make her fell more interested in learning dances that you both dance socially. It's New Year's. I'd honestly suggest making it your resolution to try to go on at least 2 dance dates a month in January and February. (Eventually, you want to go more. But you need to find places first!

(If you don't know how to find these things: learning names of local bands and following them on facebook helps. If you go to a bar that lists upcoming bands, note all those bands down, hunt them down on facebook, and you'll learn which places schedule bands.)

 

[fineshrine]

We have been married for 20 yrs. We started dating by going to dance classess together. Over past 20 yrs we took dancing classess intermittently. Our dancing became more regular/serious over past 3 yrs. My wife is very passionate about dancing- it is her hobby and she is very good dancer. I do love spending time with her and eagerly learned new dancing steps. 2 yrs ago she started taking individual lessons since my progress was "too slow". She goes once a week and dances with a teacher/pro. Recently she informed me that she wants to participate in dance competition with her professional partner. I must admit that I was surprised. I did see her recently dancing tango with him during regular club dances and my heart "sank". She dances at high level and is able to follow lead very well. The closeness and intimacy she had with her partner surprised and shocked me. In my naive imagination I thought that this level of intimacy was reserved only for me, for our marriage.... needless to say my male ego suffered significant hit. As you can imagine I am not as young as used to be and live thru my own insecurties as well. I also felt as a looser who was left behind.... I was progressing in my dancing skills and learning new steps as often as I could. I was hoping that if I improve my dancing skills she may want to go for some amateur competition with me somday... I do enjoy dancing very much but significant part of my dancing motivation was to improve my skills to be a good partner for my wife. I really enjoyed the moments when other people were complimenting our dancing skills as a couple. I want to mention that during regular social dancing we change partners and I feel quite relaxed about it. The professional competition style brings it to level I cannot accept. I shared with my wife my my concerns and insecurities. I told her that I am jealous person- she knows me too well for 20 yrs anyway- and that kind of bond and intimacy she has with another man while dancing makes me anxious, sleepless, sad and jealous. My wife told me that this is all my imagination and completely baseless. She considers dancing as relaxation and exercise and there is nothing to jealous about. I did go to psychologist to discuss my jealousy issues. He aknowledged my emotions as natural and understandable but did not offer any specific advice beside option for couple therapy to resolve our differences (my wife was not interested). Despite my deep concerns she is getting ready for the dance competition. Recently I saw her sizing her new competition dressess- she looks gorgeous and very sexy. It fueled my worst emotions. My mind and imagination is playing constant tricks on me. I cannot sleep and feel sick. Because of this all situation I am loosing sense of intimacy with her and I am afraid that if it continues unchanged, our so far succesful marriage will implode. Please give me some advice how to save my mind and marriage.

Individual therapy will help you to address this. You talk about your male ego, jealousy and feel like her having a dance lesson or going to a dance competition is "a date" which is not true. This mindset is something for you to fix or it will greatly affect your relationship with your wife. Having a jealous partner is awful.

Yes other romantic partners have felt this way about their husband or wife dancing, but that doesn't mean it isn't your problem to address.

You have a mismatch in feelings towards dance, she wants to be competitive and dance to the highest level she can which she will do by dancing pro am, and you want to dance socially with her. You can't insist that she dance with you or that she doesn't dance with anyone else but you could both try and reach a compromise (e.g. you also do open circuit comps with her and dance competitively, or she also dances socially with you) but you need to fix your jealousy issue either way.

 

[opendoor]

..At this point I am .. thinking to stop dancing altogether. I lost my motivation....

So I was right?

..I fear not, but your wife does..

 

[Well Rounded]

There is no reason you cannot dance competitively with your wife. I know several ladies who dance competitively with a pro at one level compete as amateurs with their husband at a lower skill level. These ladies get great satisfaction from both activities.

I understand you are not jealous of her dancing with other people in general, only the professional. The jealousy is indeed toxic. I know of more than one romance that ended because one partner was jealous of the other partner dancing with other people.

I know at least one man who was going through something similar. His wife was dancing show dances with a pro. He was advised to try show dancing with a female pro. He danced with a young and attractive professional lady. Shortly into training for the show dance he realized no romance was involved and he stopped feeling jealous of his wife and her pro. This participation gave him perspective and insight that he might not have gained any other way. He also discovered that he really enjoyed dancing show dances with a pro. Now he and his wife perform together also. He highly recommends this type of "therapy".

Best wishes and I hope you find a way to make your peace with the situation.