I need some love.

[noobster]

I just feel like a big clumsy sack of blah out there on the floor. Learming this choreography hasn't been hard, but I'm not brilliant, either. I'm joyless... and I'm self-conscious, and I'm not loving myself or feeling confident.

I haven't done dance performance (been invited a couple of times but I know it wouldn't be my thing), but I've got a few words about this from whatever stage experiences I've had in my life:
It's so easy to feel free and graceful and wonderful and talented when stuff is happening on the fly, as in social dancing or improv acting. Anything that's a little awkward or weird is gone in a flash, swept away by the next move or line.

Performing a rehearsed routine is a whole different ball of wax. No awkwardness allowed - it's all got to be ironed out - and it's pretty hard to wring some joy and spontaneity from a movement you've repeated or a line you've rehearsed hundreds of times in the last month. I wouldn't be waiting around to get the social-dancing high from choreography if I were you.

If you're a born performer (and it sounds like you are), you'll probably get a performer's high when you're actually on the stage. For now, I would maybe try to concentrate on making your technique the best it can be and stop worrying so much about the 'joyless' part.

My husband has been to some rehearsals and he's noticed an incredibly strong negative vibe in the room when this group is together: how can we progress and be the best we can be in an environment like that?

What is it specifically? Where is the negative energy coming from? If it's your teacher, that's a hard roadblock. But if others in the group feel the same, you can band together to create support for each other. Do you like the other dancers? Do you hang out after rehearsal or do you all go your separate ways? Try and analyze what's within your power to fix about this.

I wanted to make this SO badly. I wanted to be here so passionately... and now it feels like a pathetically deflating balloon.

Echo waltzgirl: you're building this up way too much. Let it go just a little bit. Breathe. Really.

I just need SOME positive feedback on my dancing from someone who knows what they're doing... I know I shouldn't hinge my feeling of ability and success on what other people say, but I'm floundering here.

Unfortunately, it's true. It's not your coach's specific job to support whatever emotional issues may arise in your dancing. (Some coaches are supportive and that's great, but it sounds like he's not, and well, like I said, it's not in his job description.) He's there to coach you into being the best you can be, by whatever means that takes. Your friends might be a good source of support, but it sounds like you're not letting yourself get support from them because they're no more experienced than you are.

I know you don't want to hear this, but I think you need to just try and do the best job you can do and let your validation come from that. Let it be internal. Hanging your self-esteem on someone else's compliment is no way to live your life.

 

[thespina13]

I know you don't want to hear this, but I think you need to just try and do the best job you can do and let your validation come from that. Let it be internal. Hanging your self-esteem on someone else's compliment is no way to live your life.

LoL... trust me. I knew it when I was writing it. NOrmally I'm not so self indulgent. Maybe I should have prefaced the post with a warning; "I'm being sucky and whiny and totally immature right now". I guess in all of my other performing experiences, I can remember the crunch time where there is no inspiration, my performance sucks, and I feel awful until something cracks or breaks or turns over, and then everyone, including me, gets their hair blown back. it's gratifying, and I know it will come here too... just a matter of getting there. and yeah, you're totally right about the part where it' no-one's job to babysit me. I got annoyed at a compatriot's whining one night for the very same reason. She was asking all of us to modify ourselves based on her comfort level. So. Lesson learned.

Thanks for the reality check, guys.

(Can you imagine being MARRIED to me and having to listen to this all the time?? DH has the patience of Job.)

 

[Josh]

hey thes :wink:

Something else to keep in mind--your feelings of "blah" may very well come from the fact that this is not your own choreography, but someone else's... When I do choreography for a group, then I do it by myself, or with a partner. But when I do it for a solo student who will be performing it with me, then she will give me a thumbs up or down on specifics, so that way she has had a small hand in the creative process. Maybe you're not feeling things because it's not your own? When I perform another person's choreography, it usually feels like adopting a child--I love doing it, but it still doesn't come from me.

 

[starry]

Seems to me like you need to remember to "just shut up and dance." And I have to wonder, do you love to dance or love any positive attention it might bring your way? What is with the constant need of being patted on the back? Remember, performing is a very different animal than social dancing. Social dancing is for you and your partner, you own it all and it is solely for your enjoyment. When performing, the dance is not yours any longer; it belongs to the audience. The audience is whom you should be pleasing, not yourself with expectations of them bolstering what seems to be your very fragile and needy ego. When you have given the audience the great experience they deserve (after all, they are investing precious time watching you), then you have done your job as a performer. Ego lifts, self-validation, even perfecting technique means diddly squat TO A PERFORMER if he/she is not focused on giving the audience a good show.

I suggest you stop thinking so much about feeling good about yourself and your feelings and start thinking about giving the audience a great experience.

 

[road2graciousness]

Ego lifts, self-validation, even perfecting technique means diddly squat TO A PERFORMER if he/she is not focused on giving the audience a good show.

Forgive me if I mis-understand the deeper issues here, but isn't performing all about 'ego lifts' and showing off to the audience?

I'm not critisizing performers here, it's just that it seems to me, social dancing is doing it for yourself, how you feel, within your own body. Performing seems all wrong to me, because it's about looking good for the audience. Then again, for me, I would much prefer to see a talented couple social dancing and having genuine fun, than a performance (which I'm not that keen on to be honest, all seems so over conrtolled and contrived - but that's just my take on it).

I guess what I'm getting at, is the contrast between social dancing and performance, in that social dancing is something way more personal and from the heart, much more about self expression. Performance just seems like gettng validation from the audience?

 

[sweavo]

The audience is whom you should be pleasing, not yourself with expectations of them bolstering ... your ... ego. When you have given the audience the great experience they deserve (after all, they are investing precious time watching you), then you have done your job as a performer.

Damn, I wish the orgs of the big UK congresses would remember this and cut the shows to a length that left you with the will to live when they were done!

 

[Big10]

I guess what I'm getting at, is the contrast between social dancing and performance, in that social dancing is something way more personal and from the heart, much more about self expression. Performance just seems like gettng validation from the audience?

To me, even the most intimate social dancing is a bit of a performance, with each partner "performing" for the other. Aren't social partners still seeking some sort of validation from each other?

The difference is that there is much more immediate interactive feedback from your social partner, yet much less time to rehearse. In other words, the tradeoff between the settings usually becomes passion versus technical difficulty/precision. A "stiff" appearance is the natural result when the steps become routine and spontaneous internal emotions are diminished after a dance sequence has been rehearsed over and over and over. Still, the best performers get that extra "rush" simply by being in front of a large crowd and are skilled at being able to convey that emotion. The audience is simply a "partner" whom you can't touch. For social dancing, the most impressive ones are those who can maintain a high level of technique without losing their passion for the moment.

Just two different settings for a "performance." Either way, I don't think the type of self-expression or the desire for validation is any less respectable when it's for many people (onstage) versus one-on-one.

 

[Danish Guy]

Sending some love and some good vibes

My thoughts!
Stop fighting yourself, acknowledge your improvements
and don’t make too much fuss out of small problems.
You are in a positive situation, you are where you wanted to be.
You are learning a lot, including something you didn’t expect to learn,
but that was a part of the package.
You got the choice to continue, or the choice to say stop,
so you are in control. Whatever you chose will be the right for you.
You don’t have to win something, so try to find the fun and the good vibes.

When you end in the spotlight you will do great!

I would still like to dance with you one the social floor

PS
Give that husband a big hug

 

[thespina13]

Seems to me like you need to remember to "just shut up and dance." And I have to wonder, do you love to dance or love any positive attention it might bring your way? What is with the constant need of being patted on the back?

You know, starry, feeling like I'm on the right track and I'm progressing is more what I'm looking for. I was needing some positive feedback on any part of my development, so I could understand and take heart in my forward motion. I needed to hear something constructive from a teacher or a leader in the field. There was something personally very uncomfortable about this month, and it very well could have been all my own problems.

And what is this comment about a "constant" need for a pat on the back"? I just so happen to live a life that doesn't give that to me a whole lot, and I seem to be thriving and happy despite it. this particular experience though, had a weird energy that I didn't gel with right away. I am not averse to hard work, digging in and sweating until things are stellar. I'm also a performer... I've been an actress for a long time, and I am no stranger to the philosophy and process of developing a performance. I also know how I work... I know I usually feel completely inept and lost until something clicks and then kabam. Fireworks. I just usually have a cast or a director giving me feedback that keeps me marching forward in cases like that. Working mostly by myself and sort of thrashing around tryingn to be brilliant with no feedback is a challenge for me.

You can tell someone else to shut up and dance. Last time I checked, this was a forum, where discussions about dance and all its myriad issues is sort of the point.

As for social vs performance dancing, they both have their merits, r2g... last night after the last class was over I went to the littlest salsa club anywhere and indulged in some overdue catharsis on the floor. it was wonderful feeling that again. I got to smile and feel together and expressive and creative (Josh I think you're onto something), and social dancing gives a lot in that regard. gives a lot of the "love" I felt I needed. For myself, from myself, and from outside as well. Communication. (To me, communication IS love). Performing though, pushes you to a level of refinement you generally don't reach in social dancing. i think. It's a different thing. And I seem to like it and strive for it. it's intense. As far as personal expression, there are a lot of sweat and tears up there in a peformance,and I believe it expresses who you are on a totally different level. It expresses your ferocity, your commitment, your hard work, your focus and your ability. Creatively, it expresses your ability to interpret, which is an art in itself.

LoL.... John, thank you so much. And I have. A lot. Thanks for the kind, wise words, you're totally right. That's just the kind of encouragement I needed to hear. Thank you.

Anyhow. I'm on the right track again. I appreciate all the perspectives presented here.

 

[starry]

"Shut up and dance" is an common expression, certainly not to be taken literally. I thought you would understand the connotation, which is really if you stop over-thinking your task to death you will naturally become a more fluid expressionist with your dancing. I am suggesting that you try to get diminish your internal, ego-driven need for outside affirmation, and instead focus on filling the needs of the audience.

I too spent a few years in the theater and understand those demands as well. I understand how our internal voices can at times be our worst enemy when it comes to perfecting our skills.

I read recently that performers are the most insecure people in the world, in need of constant attention and accolades to feel worthy. Your posts, it seems to be, illustrate that.

I am a more pragmatic performer. I have a job to do when I hit the performance floor, people are paying to see me dance, and the service I provide to them for their money and time is my dancing. I put them first, and as long as I see they are smiling, laughing, clapping, gasping, etc., I am happy because I have done my job. The feedback is in their reaction, in their body language. Sure, I get compliments, and they are nice, but they do not affect my feelings of adequacy. I also get some critical feedback, which again I look at pragmatically and do not take it personally. If something I do works, I continue in that direction, if not, I find ways to modify and improve until they are feeling great. I focus on their feelings and outward displays of reaction, not mine.

Good luck to you. And remember how very, very fortunate we are that we get to dance at all, socially and professionally. Many folks never know or never will know such a gift. We are lucky, lucky ladies.

 

[road2graciousness]

As for social vs performance dancing, they both have their merits, r2g... last night after the last class was over I went to the littlest salsa club anywhere and indulged in some overdue catharsis on the floor. it was wonderful feeling that again. I got to smile and feel together and expressive and creative (Josh I think you're onto something), and social dancing gives a lot in that regard. gives a lot of the "love" I felt I needed. For myself, from myself, and from outside as well. Communication. (To me, communication IS love). Performing though, pushes you to a level of refinement you generally don't reach in social dancing. i think. It's a different thing. And I seem to like it and strive for it. it's intense. As far as personal expression, there are a lot of sweat and tears up there in a peformance,and I believe it expresses who you are on a totally different level. It expresses your ferocity, your commitment, your hard work, your focus and your ability. Creatively, it expresses your ability to interpret, which is an art in itself.

The thing is, when you're (anyone) performing, it's like you're not dancing for yourself anymore, you've kinda left your heart and gone in to your head and all concerned about how you look and appear to other people. That's how I'm seeing it anyway, and as someone else pointed out, there is an element of performance in social dancing too, I know there is, I'm like the number one culprit for this, but I recognise that when I'm flirting with the crowd (or more often, other dancers), my focus has moved away from and outside of myself. Not that that is always a bad thing, I guess it's a question of balance, and what feels right. I was just wondering if in your case, you'd gotten a little too far away from the "what's in it for you" thing.

Oh yeah, and I recon the most important person who can be patting you on the back, is yourself ...

Unwind, recognise your own acomplishments, and that sometimes, not trying so hard, can get you further ... be relaxed and have a happy heart.

 

[thespina13]

I think one problem with posting on a forum is the perceived permanence of the state of mind of the poster, since as soon as the thought is expressed in written/typed words, they're there "forever". I recoil at the expression "insecure", because it connotes the idea that I place the perception of my value in what other people think of me, and posting it here makes it seem like I'm still in that state. Like everything I do is flavoured with the spice of that insecurity.

Like you, starry I value feedback. Like I said before, I wasn't getting any. If I see that something I'm doing is right or effective, I get to put a little checkmark next to it and mentally log it... I keep wearing it. I internalize it and add it to my skill set. What do I keep... what do I build on, if I'm not getting response? I realize that I have to critique my own progress, but this is the thing. Performing requires going all the way, putting yourself totally out there. It's a vulnerable place to be for some. And since dancing is relatively new to me as a form of expression or a discipline, I really appreciate the guidance of a teacher or fellow dancer.

Perhaps I do over-think things... in fact I know I do. And as far as insecurity goes, when I'm stepping into unknown territory or a new process, yeah, I feel a little unsteady. It's situation specific, and it eases as things become more familiar. One thing I love about myself is my ability to be honest about my reality, and know that I move forward constantly. As a matter of fact, I'm feeling much more solid and content now than I was just the few days I when I wrote that. It just helps to have some positive feedback soemtimes, so I can build the right skills. When you're in an art form or form of expression that requires the audience to get something from it, to "read" you, the whole thing RELIES on knowing exactly what it is you look like, to be able to present just the right thing to illicit a great response. It greatly and essentially relies on feedback. Can you see where a lack of feedback during production in this case would be frustrating? Our group, as a whole, gets some very constructive guidance... we do move forward, obviously. I'm not going to beat a dead horse now, but I don't think it's damaging to my growth as a dancer or person to feel like i could use some personal, positive feedback every once in awhile.

As far as gratitude goes, I'm grateful for life. Within it, I feel the full spectrum of confidence, insecurity, passion, boredom, solidity, fragility, expression ad introversion. Dancing brings all of these out, and I live life more fully and with eyes wide open while I dance. I like emotion, and how, if honestly embraced, it can lead to greater self knowledge. It requires a certain amout of detachment from them, yet an acknowledgement and acceptance of them as well. And I could be wrong, but I believe that's what makes me a good dancer. If I weren't dancing, I would still carry with me an aura of gratitude... I'm not only grateful for my specific abilities or my individual pursuits, since those change all the time or could be gone at any moment. I'm grateful for the whole big picture, the dynamic fluctuations within it, and the love of God throughout.

LoL, and yeah, r2g... relax is a word I ought to have tattooed on my forehead or something.

 

[road2graciousness]

Damn, I wish the orgs of the big UK congresses would remember this and cut the shows to a length that left you with the will to live when they were done!

... you got that right!!! (better still, have the performances in another room somewhere, so as not to cut in to valuable social dancing time).

 

[quixotedlm]

I am suggesting that you try to get diminish your internal, ego-driven need for outside affirmation, and instead focus on filling the needs of the audience.

She probably is not, and neither are the rest of us when it's our turn to post and ask for support about whatever it is that's troubling us. It's just a transient need for our buddies to tell us that we will be ok. Many of us are in small ponds where finding the support and empathy that we sometimes need is hard, because there are few close freinds who actually understand what's going on inside our heads. So we resort to our friends in DF. It doesn't mean that we need external affirmations all the time - it just means that we are sometimes, and understandably so, overwhelmed by our own aspirations and the last mile of the hard run. Even the best performers seek and need the affirmations of their friends, and i think that's ok to seek.

 

[thespina13]

:friend:

yup thank you quix.