If most musical verses are 32 beats, and you're dancing a 6-count dance like Texas Two-Step, what do you do with the extra 2 beats?

Johannson

Johannson

Active Member
It's okay that not all QQSS dance patterns start at the 1 of the music bars, but in lindy hop etc I've learned how much better it feels if dancers start the beginning of each musical verse with the 1 of a dance rhythm / pattern.
Dancing 6 counts, after 4 dance bars you're at 24 beats, add a 5th and that gets you to 30 beats. What do you do for the extra 2? In lindy hop you can make one of the moves an 8-count move (if you're doing 4 x 6-count moves), or you can do a 6-count and then just freeze or pulse for 2.
What about in Country Two-Step?
 
What do I do with the "extra" two beats? Using your count, starting with the quicks, I would dance a quick and a quick, then two slows and two quicks, etc
Don't overthink it.
You are dancing to three chords and the truth.

More later (maybe?) about why I think the music, the dances and the social scenes are different, etc and justify this.
 
Steve Pastor said:
...the music, the dances and the social scenes are different..
Click to expand...
I think it depends on the aims of dancer and teacher. Anyone who wants his students to map or interpret the music (that alone is fun) must not teach to unwind steps like a machine. Students should learn to hear the music. My Lindy teacher therefore once started with breaks (2-count, 4-counts).
 
"Texas two step" is done primarily in informal settings such as honky tonks, bars and other social settings that often, but not always, include drinking alcohol. It is primarily a social dance.
Many of the guys who dance can stay in time with the music but lose it when they lead turns for the woman. I'd say that learning and leading various turns is where the challenge is, not listening to the phrasing of any particular song.

Nobody has ever said that you need to take two step lessons for 6 months before getting on the dance floor, or for seven years to learn to "walk."

Here's a quote from Skippy Blair.
"Discovering how to hear the phrasing in a piece of music allows the dancer more creativity. It is vital information for a Competitor, Teacher or a Choreographer."
I've had many conversations with many people over the three and a half decades I've been doing Texas two step dance and I feel like a pariah even talking about people not being in time with the music.

Another thing that bugs me is when people start a pattern partner dance like schottische or cowboy cha cha or horseshoe somewhere other than at the beginning of a phrase.
With West Coast it "ain't right" when I see people ignore a break / pause in the music. But, when I miss my first rock back on your left foot at the beginning of a phrase and start with the first triple, it doesn't feel "wrong" at all, just different than what people are teaching now.

In Texas two step I don't have to give "phrasing" a thought, unless there's a "pause" break in the music. And that is extremely rare in the music that we dance to. (Toby Keith's "Not as Good as I Once Was" (we do Horseshoe to that and I would do Triple Two as a two step) and "Red Solo Cup" are the only two songs I can think of. More common, but still pretty rare are the songs that you think are over with enough of a pause that people are leaving the dance floor, but start up again. (Wish they wouldn't play those!)

And if you have time, you might read up on one tale of where what we have learned as "texas two step", but was called "Western Swing" in Houston in the early 80s, came from.

My favorite quote from the site.
What if there was nothing more to Western dancing? How long would interest in the dance last if we had already seen all there was to do? Would forwards/backwards/&circles be enough to sustain my career as a Western dance instructor?
What if there was nothing more to Western dancing? How long would interest in the dance last if we had already seen all there was to do? Would forwards/backwards/&circles be enough to sustain my career as a Western dance instructor?

Cause up until then, two step was step together step, step together step.
 
Last edited:
I should have said: I'm teaching an intro to texas two step (students know that despite my set of super-cool moves I'm not a total pro), and I want them to walk away with a class summary video of a pattern they can repeat and repeat and repeat, until they're ready to learn something new, and I want that pattern to be either 4 8-counts or 8 8-counts, so they match the music.
We can say matching the music's phrasing doesn't matter for beginners, but we could also say it matters more for beginners. We want them to internalize the rules before they find freedom to break rules.
I don't want to mix rhythms. I'm trying to get them to feel 6-count QQSS - I don't want to throw that learning into chaos by teaching an 8-count move.
How can I do both? I guess just let each phrase end with a 2-beat pause - focusing on listening to the phrasing and embodying it with a sense of anticipation.
 
Is Texas Two-Step the same thing as Country Two-Step? Progressive line-of-dance?

Ending with a 2 beat pause sounds like a traffic disaster if so.
 
David_In_CA said:
Is Texas Two-Step the same thing as Country Two-Step? Progressive line-of-dance?

Ending with a 2 beat pause sounds like a traffic disaster if so.
Click to expand...
Yes. Good point. I'm mostly working with people who would be either dancing as a couple down rural streets with no one else around, or dancing in mostly empty dance venues, but indeed there ought to be a solution that won't cause traffic disasters on crowded floors.

An extra QQ it is. (A slow would put them on the wrong foot.) In order to not interfere with learning to feel the QQSS rhythm I might call those out as "walk walk" and mention the reason.
 
Thanks David for your comment, which I will reiterate by saying that teaching a pause for the two beats following the overwhelmingly common 6 beat pattern would be a great disservice to the people being taught.

And yes, what we learned here in the Pacific Northwest back in the 80s was Texas Two-Step, the same thing as Country Two-Step? Progressive line-of-dance?
Be aware though, that step together step, quickquick slow is another valid form of progressive country two step.

Regarding UCWDC, that's the same organization that promotes nite club two step being taught "backwards." And I'm pretty sure I have partners who could do two "spins" in the four beats where I'm doing two "slows."

If you can't get over the fact that music is organized in multiples of four, and think that teaching a six beat pattern means that people have to ignore the music, maybe this will help.
There's a 1997 Texas Dance Party video tape I picked up years ago. This is the "count" they use for the man.
Left touch
Left touch
Right touch
That's still 6 beats, but note that you move your feet on each beat.
It turns out that you pretty much have to do an actual weight change on that first "touch, because you can't step" on the same foot twice without hopping. Then, when you leave out the next two touches, you are taking your steps over two beats. quickquick slow slow So, you could say you are ignoring the 8 beat phrases in the music, but more importantly you are NOT ignoring the music. And NOT dancing in time to the music is a major (bad) thing in real world country western dancing.
 
Greybeard said:
UCWDC recognizes a QQQQSS pattern. When they get more comfortable with the dance and turning they can put a double lady's turn there.
Click to expand...
I've had second thoughts about this. While UCWDC does recognize the pattern, I don't think many beginner dancers know about it. If you add it to the lesson, some leader will try it with a partner that didn't take that class and it probably won't go well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Dance Ads

Advertise on Dance Forums Reach dancers, teachers, studios, event organizers, and dance-friendly brands. View ad options
Back
Top