I'm looking at Sacadas...

[AndaBien]

Another aspect of doing sacadas, which I’m well aware of but have neglected to mentioned so far, is the preparation, or the prior step.

If you lead a small step just before the sacada, you will leave yourself a small space between your partner’s feet, for you to do the sacada. If you lead a large step on the count before the sacada, you afford yourself a large space for the sacada. This makes the sacadas a lot easier.

 

[Mario7]

Andres Laza is my current study:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFewj8n21zw&feature=related
From watching this video, am I correct in assuming that Sacadas are more numerous and more available in the CW direction GIRO ...to the leader's right, closed side?
I also notice that this guy opens up to do the sacadas in Giro...he has a way of conveying 'embrace' even when opening up...my question...what is possible if staying in close embrace..? ..even apilado?? I hunger to know!


hmmm, a bigger step will give me more room??? I was thinking differently, I will try it...thks!!

 

[opendoor]

.....what is possible if staying in close embrace..?

You can be very ambitious in dancing every fancy stuff in closest Apilado... but better ask your DPs if they feel comfortable with it. Sometimes it feels better for them not to be held so tight. And that counts! But, Mario, it is more difficult to be flexible with the right arm than to dance strictly Apilado. It took me 3 years to dance liquido!

wr OD

 

[AndaBien]

...From watching this video, am I correct in assuming that Sacadas are more numerous and more available in the CW direction GIRO ...to the leader's right, closed side?
I also notice that this guy opens up to do the sacadas in Giro...he has a way of conveying 'embrace' even when opening up...my question...what is possible if staying in close embrace..? ..even apilado?? I hunger to know!

I like to dance strict close embrace, not opening it for anything, and I find the CW sacadas quite challenging. I need to have a good partner to do them. I mainly do sacadas moving in a straight line, rather than turning.

 

[AndaBien]

...From watching this video, am I correct in assuming that Sacadas are more numerous and more available in the CW direction GIRO ...to the leader's right, closed side?

In theory, the same sacadas are available in either direction: three sacadas, done with either L or R foot, gives six. (See my earlier post about sacada practice drill). Some of those sacadas are marginally available because they are quite difficult.

 

[bastet]

Andres Laza is my current study:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFewj8n21zw&feature=related
From watching this video, am I correct in assuming that Sacadas are more numerous and more available in the CW direction GIRO ...to the leader's right, closed side?
I also notice that this guy opens up to do the sacadas in Giro...he has a way of conveying 'embrace' even when opening up...my question...what is possible if staying in close embrace..? ..even apilado?? I hunger to know!


hmmm, a bigger step will give me more room??? I was thinking differently, I will try it...thks!!

I don't lead sacadas often enough to really know, but if you are staying strictly in close embrace, I think you will find that during a turn, a sacada to the follows side step in a giro will be the easiest to fit in. I'd start with the giro turning to your left.

Of course, as others said- you can do what I call "walking" sacadas pretty much anytime.

 

[opendoor]

Re: straight

A lot of very experienced dancers and teachers in this forum labelled the forward sacadas as straight sacadas in this thread. From a didactic point of view this is a very misleading term, isn´t it? This is also the reason, why I always stuttered around of lane changes as key movements in my first post. So if you do not teach this fact (or shall it be a secret ?), forward sacadas will remain difficult for a lot of tango students.

 

[Mladenac]

howto forward sacada - go forward with hips with intention to step near partners legs your torso rotating to your partner, at the end of movement do small pivot if necessary

It takes time to master those pivots (inner and outer pivots):bouncy:

 

[AndaBien]

A lot of very experienced dancers and teachers in this forum labelled the forward sacadas as straight sacadas in this thread. From a didactic point of view this is a very misleading term, isn´t it? This is also the reason, why I always stuttered around of lane changes as key movements in my first post. So if you do not teach this fact (or shall it be a secret ?), forward sacadas will remain difficult for a lot of tango students.

Please explain how this is misleading.

 

[dchester]

There are a lot of ways to analyze/categorize sacadas. One way is as follows.

• The follower could be making any of the front, back, or side steps.
• The leader can do the sacada on any of the followers steps, with either his front, side, or back steps.
• Also, both the leader and the follower could be doing any of the steps with either their right or their left foot.

If you do the math, 3 x 3 x 2 x 2 that comes out to 36 possibilities. IMO, you need to say what the followers step, along with the leaders step, to completely define a specific sacada (i.e. the leader uses a side step to sacada the followers front step).


BTW, if you also include the follower sacadaing the leader, then you get the answer of 72 different sacadas.
8)

 

[dchester]

Continuing with similar analysis from my previous post, if you limit the sacadas to ones done in the giro, you get a different answer (it's the geek in me).


The follower has 4 different step in the giro (sure, two of them are side steps, but because of the differences in what the next step could be, they should be considered two separate steps).
The giro can be done in either direction (CW or CCW).
The leader still has the same 3 options for his step (front, side, or back).

If you do the math 4 x 2 x 3 you get 24 different sacadas.

 

[Captain Jep]

I once did a class with Andres Amarilla where he went through all the logical combinations. I remember thinking at the time "I only do about 4 of these - total".

I remember also that some of the sacadas required breaking of the embrace. Bonus points if you can tell me how many

(Andres would BTW appreciate your geek perspective lol )

 

[Mario7]

I once did a class with Andres Amarilla where he went through all the logical combinations. I remember thinking at the time "I only do about 4 of these - total".
I remember also that some of the sacadas required breaking of the embrace. Bonus points if you can tell me how many

I think that the allure of 'all the possible combinations' is a continuation of the facination with 'steps'. And I think that this is also the genesis of the 'Nuevo' (steps) style of dancing.
I personally would rather watch the videos of Milonguero close embrace style where the dancing of the past 50 years has honed and smoothed the figures down to the most beautifully efficient for executing in the close embrace. That's why I'd rather depend on a large sampling of videos of Milonguero dancers and see which sacadas are most prevalant and how. Andres Laza was a bit off the beaten track having elements of 'show' and 'Nuevo' in his dance...I've since, contritely returned to less showey stuff.
No thank you, to the 97 possibilities...ugh:doh:

 

[AndaBien]

Danel Bastone, a gentleman who grew up in BA, once told me that some of his students in this country would ask about steps he'd never heard of. He said his students knew more combinations than he did. However, he was a suberb dancer of the older generation.

 

[dchester]

I once did a class with Andres Amarilla where he went through all the logical combinations. I remember thinking at the time "I only do about 4 of these - total".

I remember also that some of the sacadas required breaking of the embrace. Bonus points if you can tell me how many

(Andres would BTW appreciate your geek perspective lol )

It's funny, when doing a giro CCW, there is only one of these that I do (unless experimenting or something). I use a side step (on my right foot) to sacada her side step. However when going CW, maybe 4 or 5. I'll sacada either her front, and/or the side step that follows, but normally I'll use a front step.

No bonus points for me, as I'm too lazy to figure out how many would break the embrace. I'm still trying to get good at the easy ones.