Inviting the woman, open side vs closed side
- Thread starter koinzell
- Start date
I think i invite a follower on any side - i have never actually thought about it, but playing with it in my head it feels like setting up the close embrace by pulling them towards me with my right arm and then offering my left arm would be odd, in the same way that just offering my left arm and then closing the embrace with my right arm would be. What i do is step on the dancefloor to create a safe space in front of me, opening my chest and waiting for them to step into my embrace, and then embrace on both sides. This sometimes turns into right or left side first, especially if they step into the embrace with one side first, but it is not something that i initiate.
Lilly_of_the_valley
Well-Known Member
99% of people I dance with start by offering me their left hand. I give them my right hand, come close and embrace them with the left, then they put their right hand around my back closing the embrace.
I do the same when I dance in a man's role -- start with the open side.
The remaining 1% seem to be people trained for salon style competitions.
I do the same when I dance in a man's role -- start with the open side.
The remaining 1% seem to be people trained for salon style competitions.
tangobro
Active Member
Im in Lily's 99%. The woman then chooses either a V embrace, closer to the closed side, or a more parallel embrace.
I would have to partially disagree that the woman chooses how open/closed her right side is.
The position of the leader's hand and arm pretty much defines what she can do. You may think she is choosing, but she is actually reacting to where her body needs to be to make her right hand, arm, and shoulder comfortable based on how the leader is holding his left hand and arm. There are MANY times I would choose a parallel embrace, but can't because my hand would be pushed behind my shoulder or my wrist would be torque'd.
This is the main reason I first learned to dance in a more pronounced V embrace. I had to because I simply couldn't comfortably close the "open" side because of how some leaders use their hand/ arm.
So the follower can choose to OPEN it more, but she can't close it without the leader's cooperation.
Lilly_of_the_valley
Well-Known Member
OMG, if someone explicitly used their hand to prevent me from taking a comfortable position within the embrace that would be the end of it.
Never happened to me though. Sometimes in a practica someone asks "could we please practice in open hold", but that's about it.
Never happened to me though. Sometimes in a practica someone asks "could we please practice in open hold", but that's about it.
I'm sure you dance in a more experienced and sophisticated community than I usually do. If you are in BA, you are also in a place where you wouldn't run into the type of left arm positioning I'm referring to.
I truly believe that the leaders I am talking about aren't doing it deliberately to prevent me from closing. They are holding their hand and arm where they have been taught to do so by whatever teacher and don't even consider that I might want to close the open side.
I also didn't say it prevented me from taking a "comfortable" position.. I said it prevented me from taking a flat-on parallel close embrace (milonguero type). While I struggled initially with dancing more V on the open side, it wasn't physically uncomfortable... it just wasn't my preferred style or what I was used to (still not my preferred style, actually). If everyone in a community is taught and dances pronounced V-embrace, they aren't even going to be thinking about what they need to do to allow the follower to go parallel and/or apilado, and the majority of followers they encounter will be comfortable with what they are doing, because that's what the follower has also been taught.
I HAVE had a leader that knows I prefer milonguero tell me that his left arm and my right are "supposed to" (blah, blah, blah...) as though any other alternative is simply wrong. I don't seek him out as a partner anymore. Another leader who wanted to dance more milonguero couldn't understand why it never worked until I pointed out that his left arm was too far forward of his body for me to close the embrace, so I was opting to go V or open. When I showed him how he needed to position his arm and hand, he changed it.
As discussed on another thread, once the invitation is issued and accepted, there has to be some adapting by both people to mesh if you aren't already perfectly suited to one another. That's why I'm not interested in the one guy I described above.. he wasn't interested in adapting. I'm willing to adapt, but not to someone with THAT attitude.
On the theme of which hand do you offer, I've found that in a very crowded milonga where the codes are in use, the leader is on my left looking to enter the floor by getting the ok from someone coming from HIS left down line of dance. Often he is already holding my left hand in his right at that point to take me onto the floor once he has gotten the nod from whoever is coming. He doesn't usually let go of that hand and then take the other. He takes my right hand and then we release the other hand and move into position, so there is no complete break in contact.
When he isn't already holding one hand to take me onto the dance floor, then it varies, although offering his left hand first is most common.
When he isn't already holding one hand to take me onto the dance floor, then it varies, although offering his left hand first is most common.
That's the case where I'd use my left hand. If it's the beginning of a tanda, I'll cabeceo then enter the floor positioning myself facing line of dance. The lady steps in front and I can invite with my right.
Lilly_of_the_valley
Well-Known Member
Of course, there is no need to become a millipede who started wondering in which order its feet actually are moving when walking, and couldn't make a step anymore. If it works for you and your partner doesn't mind -- who cares what arm or side closes first.
If it works for you and your partner doesn't mind -- who cares what arm or side closes first.When I first started dancing AT, adjusting my frame to create the possibility of a comfortable parallel close embrace was my #1 challenge, but I have since been struck several times by the number of followers who will complain unless they can have their RH well forward, forcing my LH behind my shoulder. It is just as uncomfortable for men as for women, and I suspect that some women don't realise that the sweet spot where we can both be comfortable is very small, with little room for adjustment either way.
LadyLeader
Forum Master
A big front/belly would be helpful here! 
Working on the issue
Working on the issue