Is social tango "art"

[JohnEm]

An anecdote (while it's fresh in my mind). I was at a thinly attended social dance last night, and the DJ usually plays a couple of AT songs for the sake of the few who dance a little tango (not very authentically, as it happens, but BR dancers do like to dabble). On came Canaro/Maida's Poema (not an obvious choice for such a setting), and no one got up. I swallowed hard, and invited a BR dancer (not a tanguera) of a good standard to 'come for a walk with me to music', and we were the only couple on the floor, and off we went. Just walks, weight changes in place, little rocks, and small turns (more or less ocho cortado) but very gently (there isn't much you can follow if you have never danced tango, and don't know how the lead/follow process is meant to work). But we made a nice, simple dance. What made it work was the connection: this was someone I dance with very frequently, and she is used to the 'feel' of my lead, but she had never danced in CE before, but she followed very competently (all things considered).

Now here's the interesting thing. Not only was it obvious, the moment the music stopped, that our dancing had been watched intently, but a small group from one of my current BR beginner classes came over and asked, with obvious and genuine interest, what it was that we had been dancing. I explained, and a lady asked how my partner knew what steps to dance, and I explained a little further. 'It was lovely', she said, 'we must try that'. And they did. They asked the DJ to play it again, and now six of us got up: four of whom had never seen, let alone danced social tango, and we went a little walk around the room, stepping with the gentle beat, making some double-time steps with the music. There was a lot wrong with it (!), but afterwards, the ladies were all but glowing with satisfaction, and the men looked as though they had just experienced a breakthrough in their understanding of the nature of dance. 'I wish we could have filmed that', one of them said.

If only all art was as accessible.

That's a great story.
And that indeed is one way to draw people into true social AT.

 

[LoveTango]

I think if it is enjoyed or being recorded and enjoyed by others, then it is art. However, my purpose of dancing AT is not to create a piece of art work.

Well, but it is art not science that helps us dance better.

 

[dchester]

Is social tango "art"

To me, art is certainly an aspect of it, so in one sense, Yes. However, art may not be the only aspect of social tango. Depending on the people involved, there can also be an exhilaration aspect, possibly an affectionate aspect, a cooperative aspect (floorcraft), etc.

But there is no doubt in my mind that there is an artistic aspect to two people moving together as one, to the music. It not only can effect the two people participating, but can move the emotions of observers, as well.

Of course, some art is a lot better than others.

 

[AndaBien]

...Is it the music that produces the emotional response or a mix of you, your partner and the music? If the music is the primary sourse for you both to respond does that then make your individual responses art?

The music may stimulate an emotion in me, but it can't cause the emotion. The emotion can only come from me. The same music might stimulate a different emotion in another person.

It's the same for me, not causing, but stimulating an emotion from my partner, and vice versa. When the emotions coming from each of us are the same, stimulated by the situation, we can have a very satisfying emotional dance.

I don't think I'd go so far as to say it would be, therefore, an artistic dance. Somehow, art is greater than emotion, I think.

 

[newbie]

An anecdote (while it's fresh in my mind)....

Depends more on the studio than on the dance. When in my years of BR pupil, I once visited the weekly practise of another studio, where people are taught their role. Like, the woman takes a side step at beat #4 because she knows she has to, so does the man (with the other foot) and this way they can dance together. Nobody knew me, the ladies were pretending they were not seeing me. After the first dance though the follower hurried back to her chair and I heard her saying "Girls! He was leading my steps!"

 

[AndaBien]

Depends more on the studio than on the dance. When in my years of BR pupil, I once visited the weekly practise of another studio, where people are taught their role. Like, the woman takes a side step at beat #4 because she knows she has to, so does the man (with the other foot) and this way they can dance together. Nobody knew me, the ladies were pretending they were not seeing me. After the first dance though the follower hurried back to her chair and I heard her saying "Girls! He was leading my steps!"

Too funny.

 

[salthepal]

To clarify my original comment which precipitated this thread. I'm not saying that social dancing is not an art. However, in my mind, art is something deliberate, with superb technique, that aims to reach and/or impress a large of number of people.

But, then again, who am I to define what art is? What if someone, while bored in a lecture, doodled a sketch on the back of their notebook, and that sketch was amazingly beautiful? Is it not art? It probably is, even though that person was not trying to make a piece of art at the time; he or she was just doodling to pass time. So I guess in the same sense, my social dancing could be considered, post-hoc, to be art. I still think however, that social tango is about the process, not the end result, i.e. if I'm trying hard to make it a piece of art while I'm dancing it, then I'll probably miss the magic moment. Which would be sad, because I dance tango to have this special moment and to be able to share it.

edit: I just realized, that maybe I am making art while I'm dancing, but an art piece aimed only at my dance partner. This truly is a trippy topic

 

[dchester]

To clarify my original comment which precipitated this thread. I'm not saying that social dancing is not an art. However, in my mind, art is something deliberate, with superb technique, that aims to reach and/or impress a large of number of people.

But, then again, who am I to define what art is? What if someone, while bored in a lecture, doodled a sketch on the back of their notebook, and that sketch was amazingly beautiful? Is it not art? It probably is, even though that person was not trying to make a piece of art at the time; he or she was just doodling to pass time. So I guess in the same sense, my social dancing could be considered, post-hoc, to be art. I still think however, that social tango is about the process, not the end result, i.e. if I'm trying hard to make it a piece of art while I'm dancing it, then I'll probably miss the magic moment. Which would be sad, because I dance tango to have this special moment and to be able to share it.

edit: I just realized, that maybe I am making art while I'm dancing, but an art piece aimed only at my dance partner. This truly is a trippy topic

I would agree with this.

 

[AndaBien]

To clarify my original comment which precipitated this thread. I'm not saying that social dancing is not an art. However, in my mind, art is something deliberate, with superb technique, that aims to reach and/or impress a large of number of people.

But, then again, who am I to define what art is? What if someone, while bored in a lecture, doodled a sketch on the back of their notebook, and that sketch was amazingly beautiful? Is it not art? It probably is, even though that person was not trying to make a piece of art at the time; he or she was just doodling to pass time. So I guess in the same sense, my social dancing could be considered, post-hoc, to be art. I still think however, that social tango is about the process, not the end result, i.e. if I'm trying hard to make it a piece of art while I'm dancing it, then I'll probably miss the magic moment. Which would be sad, because I dance tango to have this special moment and to be able to share it.

edit: I just realized, that maybe I am making art while I'm dancing, but an art piece aimed only at my dance partner. This truly is a trippy topic

Trippy is right.

Any music is about the process, rather than the end result. So is Tibetan Sand Painting. the monks may not think of it as art, but most observers probably do.

There are tribes in Africa that decorate their houses with geometric designs, which many people consider to be art. In the tribe, however, there is no word for artist, because everybody does it.

Maybe art is in the embrace of the beholder.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Dancing, even socially, can be creative and expressive... to me, that's the heart and soul of art.

Everything beyond that is just ranking, judging, and critiquing based on viewer subjectivity.

If the creator feels that s/he expressed what they intended, then that is their "art".

Disclaimer: not everyone who is moving while music is playing is creating or expressing.

 

[tangomonkey]

Dancing, even socially, can be creative and expressive... to me, that's the heart and soul of art.

Everything beyond that is just ranking, judging, and critiquing based on viewer subjectivity.

If the creator feels that s/he expressed what they intended, then that is their "art".

Disclaimer: not everyone who is moving while music is playing is creating or expressing.

I very much agree with this on an individual level. In the big picture of Art with a capital A (the Fine Arts), less so...Art exists independently of an individual's perception or awareness of it

Subjectivity may even be a defining characteristic of art, but there is informed and uninformed subjectivity. An example - we all listen to tango music and we enjoy it (I assume). How many of us just loved it the very first time we heard those scratchy old recordings? Our appreciation has developed through familiarity. The music (the Art) did not change, we did. Subjectivity remains though - we may prefer certain orquestas or certain pieces more than others. Our likes and dislikes are more informed, but still subjective.

Maybe we shouldn't think in terms of social dance being art or not. Let's simply say feeling and expressing the music, sharing our emotions with our partners is artfull.

 

[Zoopsia59]

"Dancing is the loftiest, the most moving, the most beautiful of the arts, because it is no mere translation or abstraction from life; it is life itself." -Havelock Ellis

 

[tangomonkey]

"Dancing is the loftiest, the most moving, the most beautiful of the arts, because it is no mere translation or abstraction from life; it is life itself." -Havelock Ellis

Dance is a performing art. The OP asked if social tango is art. Add "Social tango" to the start of that quote and it sounds more than a bit hyperbolic.

 

[bordertangoman]

For some reason this reminds me of Dr Seuess's story the Big Brag..

"Well boys," the worm answered, "that look that I took was a look that looked farther than you'll ever look! I looked across the ocean, way out to Japan. For I can see farther than anyone can. There's no one on earth who has eyesight that's finer. I looked past Japan. Then I looked across China. I looked across Egypt: then took a quick glance across the two countries Holland and France. Then I looked across England and , also, Brazil. But I didn't stop there. I looked much further still. And I kept right on looking and looking until. I had looked around the workd and right back to this hill! And I saw on this hill, since my eyesight's so keen, the two biggest fools that have ever been seen! And the fools that I saw were none other than you, Who seem to have nothing else better to do than sit here and argue who's better than who!"

 

[tangomonkey]

For some reason this reminds me of Dr Seuess's story the Big Brag..

"Well boys," the worm answered, "that look that I took was a look that looked farther than you'll ever look! I looked across the ocean, way out to Japan. For I can see farther than anyone can. There's no one on earth who has eyesight that's finer. I looked past Japan. Then I looked across China. I looked across Egypt: then took a quick glance across the two countries Holland and France. Then I looked across England and , also, Brazil. But I didn't stop there. I looked much further still. And I kept right on looking and looking until. I had looked around the workd and right back to this hill! And I saw on this hill, since my eyesight's so keen, the two biggest fools that have ever been seen! And the fools that I saw were none other than you, Who seem to have nothing else better to do than sit here and argue who's better than who!"

"Argue who's better than who" - really? Not so. In the field of aesthetics philosophers ask and attempt answers to questions of what is beauty and what is art and how such things are perceived and judged. There are university courses and degrees granted. Discussion is valid. Consensus is difficult.

Anyway, definitions don't matter. I will continue to dance AT until I can no longer walk.