Is the natural turn changing?

[Warren J. Dew]

Below is a video of the last couple rounds in the 2015 British Open Championships (Blackpool), if I can get the link to work. It should be cued to the beginning of the waltz, the first dance in the final.



The couple with the black dress and gloves in the foreground slice diagonal to wall in both the first two steps, ending the first bar with a natural rise, side swing, sway, and shape in a way that I would consider to be a traditional, clean, natural turn. This couple, the then world champions, won.

This style of natural turn doesn't seem to be something that only the world champions can do, as the couple beside them, with the tan dress with the black hem, appear to be trying to do something similar, perhaps just not quite as expertly.

Some of the other couples don't seem to be trying to do the same thing, though. The couple with the peach dress, at the far end of the floor on the left, appears to line up to take the natural turn diagonal to the near long side "wall". The first step curves to the gentleman's right, however, and the side step, sort of continuing the curve, travels in a direction almost to the wall rather than cleanly diagonal to wall. This couple placed second and are, last I checked, now world champions, the then world champions having since retired.

Then there's the couple that starts diagonal to the opposite long side wall, starting near the far end of the stage - the couple with a dress that shades from red at the top to a black skirt. They do something in between: their first step also seems to curve toward the wall, but instead of continuing the curve in their side step, they push more to the side to track the side step more diagonally. It's not the straight slice through both steps that the first place couple gets, though. This couple placed third.

So, are these just variations in style, and does the passing of the crown from the first couple to the second couple mean the natural turn is changing? Or is the natural turn - arguably the most basic three footsteps in the entire Standard syllabus - so difficult that only the world champions could do it right? If the latter, is doing the natural turn correctly enough to win the world championship?

 

[Warren J. Dew]

Sorry, correction: the couple in the peach dress placed 3rd at this competition but I believe are now world champions. The couple with the dress shading from red to black placed 2nd at this competition. Sorry I didn't get this in time for an edit instead of an additional post.

 

[raindance]

The camera cuts away pretty quickly, and the couple furthest away is toughest to see. But my first thoughts are that they are all starting with different floor positions (e.g. closer or further from the side wall, etc), and probably going into different steps following their natural turn at the beginning of the routine. I wonder if this accounts for any of the differences. I wonder how they would all look side by side doing the same sequence with the same floor orientation.

Curious to hear what others think.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

The camera cuts away pretty quickly

Valid point. My comparison was based on watching the same several seconds repeatedly, focusing on different couples.

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

I do smooth, not standard, so my contribution is merely this: Victor Fung is sublime.
**swoon**

 

[Warren J. Dew]

I do smooth, not standard, so my contribution is merely this: Victor Fung is sublime.
**swoon**

The Standard natural turn is the same as the Smooth bronze right turn. You should know all about it by now!

When I first saw Victor Fung on the professional floor at Blackpool a couple decades ago, I thought he'd be at the top within a few years. Unfortunately, it didn't happen.

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

You should know all about it by now!

Bwahahaha… there’s that silly “should” word again. How about this: if you lead it; I’ll dance it!

 

[Cal]

How about this: if you lead it; I’ll dance it!

My reaction hearing that, given my experience as Follower: You're way better than I am! Go for it!
My reaction hearing that, given my experience as Leader: .......well…..I just figure that we’re both likely to be disappointed......

 

[Warren J. Dew]

My reaction hearing that, given my experience as Follower: You're way better than I am! Go for it!

She did say "if".

I think I can lead the straight through style. It's basically what Eggleton taught as "forward, forward" on the first two steps of the natural.

I doubt I can get the distance, and my follow through shaping would likely be sloppy at best, though.

Oh, and now I'd better tell a story about "forward, forward". This story comes from a former pro-am pro and coach. She had, back when she was an amateur, been in England with her partner to take lessons there, and had taken a lesson with Peter Eggleton where her partner was told to dance "forward, forward" on the first two steps of the natural turn. They thought it was a bit strange, but they were dutifully practicing it, when Marion Welsh walked by, observed them practicing, and said, "you've been taking a lesson from Peter, haven't you? Let me show you what he meant by that."

Apparently she then explained how the forward actions on the first two steps that he wanted integrated with CBM, turn in the feet, swing, and sway, to form a coherent whole.

In the one lesson I ever had with Eggleton, we did not work on the waltz that I recall, but he did tell me to go sideways on the feather step.

 

[tangotime]

Sorry, correction: the couple in the peach dress placed 3rd at this competition but I believe are now world champions. The couple with the dress shading from red to black placed 2nd at this competition. Sorry I didn't get this in time for an edit instead of an additional post.

One observation ; It seems to me that FT and T were musically to fast. It gave the impression that couples were running. No time given to more subtle expression

 

[Joe]

I thought the same!

 

[Warren J. Dew]

One observation ; It seems to me that FT and T were musically to fast. It gave the impression that couples were running. No time given to more subtle expression

Interesting, and I agree with the impression. None of these couples seemed to be shading the foxtrot music to give themselves more time to drift the transition from bar to bar as was favored by the previous generation of dancers. Of course there's a fine line between "shading the music" and "off time", and perhaps the current Boomer judges are stricter about this than the older Silent judges were.

In the tango some of the couples' style of dancing and even choreography may affect this look as well. If you look at couple 128's step to promenade at 17:03, at least that couple is clearly using the full two beats of the "slow", though.

That said, while I don't think the band is playing at a different tempo than I remember from around 2000, the more driving character of the new bandleader's beat may not inspire complex musical interpretation.

 

[Dr Dance]

Flip response: I do what my teacher instructs me to do.

Analytical response: Their methods may depend upon many factors including: Changing angles slightly to accommodate the next sequence based on current position and floorcraft, their training (all methods used seem to be "correct"), and knowledge of what judges consider to be "proper form."

 

[Arun Garg]

The camera cuts away pretty quickly, and the couple furthest away is toughest to see. But my first thoughts are that they are all starting with different floor positions (e.g. closer or further from the side wall, etc), and probably going into different steps following their natural turn at the beginning of the routine. I wonder if this accounts for any of the differences. I wonder how they would all look side by side doing the same sequence with the same floor orientation.

Curious to hear what others think.

I too thought this. The preceding and following figures, in addition to proximity to the floor edge, will always change how one needs to approach the turn, in terms of amount of turn and foot positions, and as a result swing and sway.
On the other hand, it could be that the simple closed natural turn is still so prevalent, even in these top pro finals, that the couples will make an effort to individualize their approach to a figure that is likely used as an equalizer across all couples for the judges (in Waltz, at least), in an effort to show off their individual artistry.
I don’t think this is an indication of a great shift in how this age old figure is being danced. Like OP stated, the champions danced a clean classic natural, and I’d like to feel that the world champions of that style set the standard for how the figures should be danced (I’m sure there are exceptions).

 

[tangotime]

Of course there's a fine line between "shading the music" and "off time",

and perhaps the current Boomer judges are stricter about this than the older Silent judges were.

I guess I fit into the older judges category and I can tell you , "we" were just as much concerned. As to the timing comment, Scrivener said that essentially shading the slows is a skill that highlights the music and went on to say BUT only a fool would be off the quicks .