Jealous with deep respect

[JohnEm]

utter balderdash;1. there is no prescriptive way of acheiving tango bliss

I didn't say there is as there isn't. Chase it and you won't achieve it
but you can provide the conditions and dance appropriately,
then it requires empathy with other couples on the dance floor.

2. They know they have the floor to themselves, but all that could be done in a milonga; there's nothing wild or uncontrolled about their dancing.

Of course they know that. The point I make is not for others to use
such a performance as a model for social dancing which appeared
to be the situation being discussed.

And not being wild or uncontrolled is not the only ingredient.

If you want to dance contemporary dance influenced tango - or even tango
influenced contemporary dance - that's your choice.
They do it very well - they are professionals with years of full-time dance.
Most of us cannot aspire to anything like that and in my view it is so
dynamically different that it doesn't coexist happily with more traditional
Argentine Tango.

If you want some balderdash, in my view this is some:

Hi waltzgirl, in tango everything leadable should look like rehearsed. This really is a spontaneous impro, but, admittedly, Roxana will know some of his routines well.

The contradiction of spontaneous routines! I've surely written in the past
about the oxymoron of claiming that almost any professional pairing dance
spontaneously. Don't be deluded by repeated routines, practise, performance.

In real tango everything leadable should not look rehearsed,
it should feel improvised to the music.

 

[ant]

Originally Posted by waltzgirl

I assume this is a choreographed routine. It didn't really look like lead and follow to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain_dog
No, it doesn't look choreographed to me.

I don't think that the routine was rehearsed specifically but if they train like other teacher/performaner couples I know of, they practice on a daily basis for a number of hours with each other so the point at which unrehearsed ends and rehearsed starts I suspect is a mute point.

However the one thing that struck me about the routine was it seemed to be far more about him than it did about her. That is a feature that always takes the shine off a performance for me.

 

[bordertangoman]

In real tango everything leadable should not look rehearsed,
it should feel improvised to the music.

That is true of any dance performance....

However the one thing that struck me about the routine was it seemed to be far more about him than it did about her.

I would agree with that, but i would also say they know how to please a BsAs audience; showy stuff is minimised and musicality and the differing time steps, and the little fumble in the middle that they pick up seamlessly, just shows how good they are together...

 

[Madahlia]

However the one thing that struck me about the routine was it seemed to be far more about him than it did about her. That is a feature that always takes the shine off a performance for me.

I rather liked that. He looked like he was having so much fun he couldn't stop himself showing off! And who could blame him? Except for John Em, apparently.

 

[tangobro]

This isn't social Argentine Tango. By all means learn from this but only if you are
aiming to perform at or near that standard or know you will have milonga floors
to yourselves. If you accept it as a performance dance then it stands on its own
merit for what it is but please don't use it as a role model for social dancing.

isn't social Argentine Tango???

Are there specific moves which they execute which are not used on the social dance floor where you dance? If so what are the timecodes on the YouTube vid?

Here in the USA, particularly in New York City, most of what they do can be seen - maybe not done as well, but it's done on the social dance floor.

The OP's vid is of a performance in Spain. This link is of their performance in Korea. Is there anything in this vid which would not be used on the social dance floor where you dance?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xk5n2wYCPs

 

[JohnEm]

I rather liked that. He looked like he was having so much fun he couldn't stop himself showing off! And who could blame him? Except for John Em, apparently.

Ha Ha, very funny.

Suggest you read my post again. And you make my point.
It's a performance - indeed he is showing off how clever he is!
I never said you couldn't enjoy it for what it is, that's their purpose
after all. But I'd rather not be on the same floor as others "performing"
like that, it doesn't create easy co-existence as is proved at many milongas.

Are there specific moves which they execute which are not used on the social dance floor where you dance?

For me tango is not choreographed "moves" or step sequences - been there,
done that and left it behind. For me tango is dancing in the moment to the music,
that is indeed the charm of it. Pre-learned moves don't usually fit the music
unless they are choreographed. Much of Tristezas was just ignored here.

Here in the USA, particularly in New York City, most of what they do can be seen - maybe not done as well, but it's done on the social dance floor.

As I've said before it's already too late; you confirm that though there are exceptions.

What most people abroad perceive as Argentine Tango is not what the Argentines
themselves dance. It amuses me to learn that people going to BsAs ask teachers
to prepare them for dancing there. Isn't that recognition enough that mostly
we don't actually dance Argentine Tango but some derivation received via
show-tango/fantasia which seems to have morphed into a semi-standardised
teaching tango abbreviated for marketing and convenience to VU.

And while many are learning so-called Villa Urquiza, my understanding
is that the original VU has been largely lost in favour of staying in a
milonguero embrace. See the Tango Voice blog for more about that.

 

[dchester]

But I'd rather not be on the same floor as others "performing" like that

I'm guessing they wouldn't want you on the floor either, when they are giving a performance.

 

[Zoopsia59]

I'm guessing they wouldn't want you on the floor either, when they are giving a performance.

:uplaugh:

 

[tangogo-dancer]

This isn't especially musical Tango either. For the first few phrases it is connected
and they set the scene with a beautifully timed embrace to the music but later on
it mainly ignored the musical lament that is Tristezas de La Calle Corrientes.

I have to agree with that. I think it's really a pity they sacrificed their musicality to fancy steps, no matter how beautiful they look.

 

[bordertangoman]

I have to agree with that. I think it's really a pity they sacrificed their musicality to fancy steps, no matter how beautiful they look.

If you watch closely he's singing along; i dont think there's anything wrong with his musicality; its just too subtle for most people to perceive.

this is a Buneos Aires audience after all; he doesnt have to dance in a way that says "Look at me I'm being musical"

 

[dchester]

I have to agree with that. I think it's really a pity they sacrificed their musicality to fancy steps, no matter how beautiful they look.

Are you talking about the music or the lyrics? There are plenty of versions of tango songs where the music does not have the same emotion as the lyrics do. I always dance to the music, which is what they did. The idea that one needs to listen to the Libertad Lamarque version, to properly dance to the Calo / Beron version does not make any sense to me.

It's about the music. Either you can feel it or you can't.

 

[tangobro]

this is a Buneos Aires audience after all; he doesnt have to dance in a way that says "Look at me I'm being musical"

Actually the audience is in Spain. According to the YouTube description:

The teachers Sebastian Achaval (2005 World Tango Salon champion) and Roxana Suarez, dance the tango, "Tristezas de la calle Corrientes" by the Orchestra of Miguél Caló with Raúl Berón, in the VIII MEETING of TANGO LOVERS 2010 Organized by the Tango Club Community of Valenciana, in the Hotel Olympia de Alboraya - Valencia (Spain), the past 11/29/2010


"Los maestros Sebastian Achaval (campeón del Mundo de Tango Salón del 2005) y Roxana Suarez, bailan el tango "Tristezas de la calle Corrientes" por la Orquesta de Miguél Caló con Raúl Berón, en el VIII ENCUENTRO DE AFICIONADOS AL TANGO 2010 Organizado por el Club Tango Comunidad de Valenciana, en el Hotel Olympia de Alboraya - Valencia (España), el pasado 29/11/2010"


the vid rumbarose recommended where they dance to "Junto a tu Corazon" is in Bs.As.

this is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETF-fQdid4A

Judging musicality by Youtube vids is problematic because the compression scheme that they use to encode the video added to the compression scheme used by the original camera, can introduce some timing differences between what was seen through the camera's viewfinder & what appears on the posted vid. I've posted over 300 YT vids @ http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?feature=mhum
& noticed there is sometimes a loss between what I had seen & experienced & what the YT viewer sees.

 

[tangogo-dancer]

If you watch closely he's singing along; i dont think there's anything wrong with his musicality; its just too subtle for most people to perceive.

this is a Buneos Aires audience after all; he doesnt have to dance in a way that says "Look at me I'm being musical"

That's not what I meant, sorry if my post was misleading. I find his musicality superb, actually. I simply point out that he dances in a way that says "Look, I can do complicated stuff", and by doing that he sometimes has to catch up with the music because he's out of the beat. Which is a pity.
Then again, this may be too subtle for most people to perceive