judgement by You Tube

[Mladenac]

The visiting teachers don't stay around long. They take the money and run. The local teachers are around for continuity and charge less.

YouTube is a useful tool if someone doesn't know the teachers. What you see in the videos is usually what you get in classes. If you want to improve as a social dancer, avoid classes with teachers who want to perform more than teach.

The best place to look for a teacher is in the milonga. Most teachers don't dance socially because they are too busy teaching. Dancers are spending lots of money taking too many classes and not learning how to dance.

Usually outside the BsAs there are AT schools with a certain style of dancing and the teachers of that schools are also organizers of the festivals. Local teacher normally call visiting teacher in which style they prefer and teach. So it's common that local teacher learn "basic" technique and visiting teacher improve that basic technique and add something of their own or present interesting ways how to use that technique in various combinations.
Also those local teacher have their schools and organize milongas and practicas.

Students knowing local teachers could know what to expect from visiting teacher if they know the organizers i.e. local teachers.

I agree with about taking to many lessons and not learning how to use everything cause a lots of that material is forgotten or not danced during practicas and milongas.

I am just saying how it is tango communities outside BsAs

 

[Peaches]

This is a key point you made, that I think some people may be misunderstanding. You can't make the assumption that traveling teachers don't know the different between a performance and social dancing. A lot of the traveling teachers do know the difference and will teach social dancing when given the opportunity.

Very nicely said.

Furthermore, at least around here it is pretty standard practice to give visiting teachers (or sometimes accomplished friends) the opportunity during a milonga to do a performance. It is unreasonable to expect that they'll dance nothing but standard social style during a performance. A performance is, after all, an opportunity to showcase and to show off a bit, and possibly also to push boundaries that normally you couldn't because of floorcraft, etc. That's normal and there's nothing wrong with it.

So of course a video of a performance doesn't really show them as teachers.

 

[bordertangoman]

"inappropriate for the milonga"

perhaps what is inappropriate varies according to time & place, but the elements taught in their NYC workshops are not inappropriate here.

Question for the forum; are the elements demonstrated in these workshop vids inappropriate where you dance?

if so, specifically which elements of which video?

Adornments. phrasing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zWLEqu222E

Vals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-xRw9udFfc

turns:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShvLp44igk

boleos, sacadas milongueros:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiWcOYpVeTQ

Aside from the sequences they also taught concepts of cushioning, elasticity, density & phrasing to make the dance comfortable & musical. I don't want to sound like an advertisement for them, but after classes with them I've had several women I regularly dance with remark about an improvement in my dancing.

"They do not dance social tango"

I'm more concerned in this thread about what instructors teach, than in what they dance.

This is what they taught about the roles of figures & sequences of steps on the social dance floor -

Georgina dismissed the role of figures in dance by saying that in BsAs people may dance all night & maybe do 5 figures, or do 5 figures for their whole lives, but the embrace, the walk, the musicality made each dance special. Oscar dismissed the role of figures in dance by saying that in BsAs, as well as some of the milongas he attended here in NYC, you can't dance figures & patterns because there is no room - so men must provide a comfortable embrace with balance & stability & move with musicality. They both taught that maintaining good posture & quality of movement was more important than "moves".

These are not things that I feel are "inappropriate for the milonga", but if they are judged by their performance vids on You Tube one might have a different conclusion.

Vals seems okay;

the Turns vid would depend on the density of people on the dance floor; but its showing things other than turns..

the sacadas and boleos arent advisable on your average milonga IMO

 

[Zoopsia59]

Mind you, I almost never take classes from visiting teachers anyway. If I think they'll be good for me, I'll take a private with them - and I make judgements purely based on word-of-mouth recommendations from people I know and respect.

Same here.

 

[Zoopsia59]

I don't spend hours combing through You Tube to try and find cool videos--I'll look at ones posted here on DF, but that's about it.

Same here.. I really don't get much thrill out of watching other people dance tango anymore except at an actual milonga. The demos are all starting to look alike to me.

It's like the difference between a competitive figure skating short program which has so many required elements that the skater can barely fit them all in to any unique choreography and a performance in a skating show where they have no restrictions or requirements.

Oddly enough, in Tango, the you tube demos start to look alike even though you'd think there would be more freedom and the social dancing, which you'd expect to be full of limitations based on conditions, has far more variation and nuance when you sit back and watch everyone.

For some reason it seems that when doing a demo, the dancers figure they've got a bunch of fancy "required moves" that they must include to be interesting to an audience, and as such, they all start to blur together for me the same way the short program can in skating unless a skater is really a standout.

But basically, I'd rather dance that watch no matter WHO I'm watching.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Oscar and Georgina upload their performances and classes on YouTube. They do not dance social tango. That is evident in their performances. They teach choreographed sequences in classes and things that are inappropriate for the milonga. When I search the word "milonguero" in YouTube for new videos, theirs always appear in the search results because they use the tag. They have even included a teaching video of "ocho cortado" -- something they never use in their dancing. They talk about "dancing on one tile" and don't do it.

Here I have to disagree with you. I had private lessons with Oscar in BA and we found him dancing in a milonga... (hmmm... Ideal maybe?). He was also going to a different milonga (Sin Rumba I think?) the next night and invited us to meet him there but we already had other plans (I think this was before he was dancing with Georgina... I'm not sure when they got together) My partner knew him from when he danced with Veronica Salmeron (who is admittedly a show dancer).

My partner is only interested in traditional BA social style dancing, but we didn't even have to tell Oscar that. He worked with us on some very useful fundamental principles and did NO "showy" fantasia style moves at all. Dancing with him was heaven and his embrace is one I wish everyone I danced with could master. Following him was a breeze. And yes, he did ocho cortado with me. Plus, we could have had the whole lesson in a space about 1/10 the size. He really can dance on a tile, and I doubt he would have even the slightest trouble social dancing in the most crowded milonga.

It's entirely possible that once he relocated to the US, partnered with Georgina (about whom I know nothing) and is teaching what North Americans want, his focus has changed. I don't know.. I've never had a group class or workshop with them here. He also teaches (or taught) quite a bit in Japan I believe.

I love all forms of tango, but I feel fairly strongly that learning traditional CE style first gives someone the best foundation in principles that can be applied across the board. I use a "milonguero style" approach in any teaching I do and my partner wouldn't teach (or dance) anything else. He doesn't even want to teach a gancho.

And despite that, or maybe because of it, I would JUMP at the chance to have another lesson with Oscar!

 

[Zoopsia59]

they also taught concepts of cushioning, elasticity, density & phrasing to make the dance comfortable & musical.

Georgina dismissed the role of figures in dance by saying that in BsAs people may dance all night & maybe do 5 figures, or do 5 figures for their whole lives, but the embrace, the walk, the musicality made each dance special. Oscar dismissed the role of figures in dance by saying that in BsAs, as well as some of the milongas he attended here in NYC, you can't dance figures & patterns because there is no room - so men must provide a comfortable embrace with balance & stability & move with musicality. They both taught that maintaining good posture & quality of movement was more important than "moves".

So from what you write, it seems that Oscar has NOT changed his focus. Yay!

 

[tangobro]

Vals seems okay;

the Turns vid would depend on the density of people on the dance floor; but its showing things other than turns..

the sacadas and boleos arent advisable on your average milonga IMO

The turns vid includes enrosques & quebradas. Are the ones shown in this vid advisable or not?

Are the sacadas & boleos shown in this particular vid not advisable, or do you mean boleos & sacadas in general?

boleos, sacadas milongueros:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiWcOYpVeTQ

 

[AndaBien]

"inappropriate for the milonga"

...if so, specifically which elements of which video?

Adornments. phrasing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zWLEqu222E

Vals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-xRw9udFfc

turns:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShvLp44igk

boleos, sacadas milongueros:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiWcOYpVeTQ

...

At the milongas I attend her adornments would be much too big, and her heels would be in the air too much. At other milongas her adornments might be much admired.

Vals seemed appropriate and very nice.

Turns, enrosques and quebradas seemed very appropriate, but somewhat large. Given that they were doing a demo, they probably should be large.

Over all? Sure, they would know how to dance at a crowded milonga.