At college competitions, many of the judges are usually coaches of the host school or other schools that will be competing. Do you think this creates a significant bias towards the couples whose coach is judging? Should no judge be anyone's coach (really difficult to arrange), or should the host schools not use their own coaches, even if they are using the coaches of other schools?
judges at college competitions
- Thread starter Anna
- Start date
I think that there are many judges from couples' home studio(and are sometimes couple's coaches too) even at large competitions. It's probably ideal to get a mix bag of judges to balance the effect. Some of the larger collegiate comps try to do this.
White Chacha
Active Member
Hosts should use the greatest variety of qualified coaches they can find to judge competitions. They should also be careful when rotating judging panels to keep the judged events relatively bias-free.
NielsenE
Active Member
In my opinion, its better to have a larger panel, even if it means you have more "coaches" on the judging panel at the collegiate events. If you end up with coaches of several different teams, then any bias (actual and/or perceived) is effectively cancelled out.
Of course many team's locations and budgets make it hard to have a large panel; also recently several Chairman seem to be assigning smaller panels that I'd like even when they have a larger pool to pull from.
When a team has a coach -- ie a singular coach for all their classes -- you often see the coach ending up in the Chairman role and this is often a good compromise -- many chairman never end up judging so there is no bias problem there and the team's own coach is likely to be on the same page as the team with regards to the published rules and their enforcement. When teams have a multitude of coaches (different levels/styles/etc) this option isn't possible.
For instance, if the smallest panel you plan to use is 5 judges, the the marks are relatively stable even with the addition of one biased(perceived or actual... IMO competitors perceive much more bias than there actually is), with 7 judges it tends to take two identically biased judges to move the marks appreciably. However if you're using only three judges in the early rounds, than a single biased judge greatly changes things.
Of course many team's locations and budgets make it hard to have a large panel; also recently several Chairman seem to be assigning smaller panels that I'd like even when they have a larger pool to pull from.
When a team has a coach -- ie a singular coach for all their classes -- you often see the coach ending up in the Chairman role and this is often a good compromise -- many chairman never end up judging so there is no bias problem there and the team's own coach is likely to be on the same page as the team with regards to the published rules and their enforcement. When teams have a multitude of coaches (different levels/styles/etc) this option isn't possible.
For instance, if the smallest panel you plan to use is 5 judges, the the marks are relatively stable even with the addition of one biased(perceived or actual... IMO competitors perceive much more bias than there actually is), with 7 judges it tends to take two identically biased judges to move the marks appreciably. However if you're using only three judges in the early rounds, than a single biased judge greatly changes things.
We'll probably be able to get 10 judges without our own coaches (but that does include coaches from other schools). I think last year we had 5 judges for every round and 8 in open events.
The main concern is that our coach is very involved with the development of our team, and I think she really really wants to judge and be involved in the competition (she and her partner judged last year). Eric's solution of making the coach the chairman is a good one, but it's not possible in our case because of the competition being co-hosted, plus we already have a chairman of judges who we picked since she has lots of experience chairing.
The main concern is that our coach is very involved with the development of our team, and I think she really really wants to judge and be involved in the competition (she and her partner judged last year). Eric's solution of making the coach the chairman is a good one, but it's not possible in our case because of the competition being co-hosted, plus we already have a chairman of judges who we picked since she has lots of experience chairing.
NielsenE
Active Member
Will all 10 judges be there the whole time, or are some only coming for Saturday night or parts of Sunday? I've seen competitions that had 8-12 judges lined-up but because 4-5 were half-day only it was very hard to even run 5 at a time. 8 judges, not including a chair, is about the minimum to have onsite if you want to run 5 judges minimum.
For the open, you better make sure to use an odd number of judges, 8 sounds very non-standard and is likely to cause wierdness with the marks.
If you have 10, then growing to 11 by using your coach, should be fine. You might even be able to run with 7 judges in the early rounds (depending on the chairwomen's decision with input from the scrutineer) which would make competitors happy and smooth over just about any bias....
For the open, you better make sure to use an odd number of judges, 8 sounds very non-standard and is likely to cause wierdness with the marks.
If you have 10, then growing to 11 by using your coach, should be fine. You might even be able to run with 7 judges in the early rounds (depending on the chairwomen's decision with input from the scrutineer) which would make competitors happy and smooth over just about any bias....
Chris Stratton
New Member
I'm far more interested in having a panel of expert judges than in avoiding any connection to the competitors. Also, I think it's unfortunate that at some competitions the best judge in the room is never asked to actually mark by virtue of being chair of judges. While using team members/amateurs for judging would be quite controversial, gradually building team experience at directing a competition to the point where you can have a team member or alumnus as the final arbiter (without the COJ title though) can free your more expert pros for the task that requires dance expertise, by assigning the administrative duties requiring a knowledge of the precise (and often non-standard) policies & procedures in effect at that particular competition to someone from the host committee.
judge
Chris- What exactly do you mean by "the best judge ",does that mean the others are inferior ? ,; and by whose yardstick ?.And , if you site experience, that does not guarantee quality .
No matter whom the organiser employs, there are always certain people who will be dis satisfied . have seen world class panels, and still people bitch !!
I take the point however, that locally involved trainers can cause some dissention , but their marks would reflect their bias , if they ran completely against the majority view in favor of their own competitors, thru out the event .
Chris- What exactly do you mean by "the best judge ",does that mean the others are inferior ? ,; and by whose yardstick ?.And , if you site experience, that does not guarantee quality .
No matter whom the organiser employs, there are always certain people who will be dis satisfied . have seen world class panels, and still people bitch !!
I take the point however, that locally involved trainers can cause some dissention , but their marks would reflect their bias , if they ran completely against the majority view in favor of their own competitors, thru out the event .
Chris Stratton
New Member
University competitions are a lot of of work and pay very little (compared to a day of teaching or especially pro/am entries), as a result, they often end up drawing on a larger pool of professionals than just those who would be elgible to judge in sanctioned competitions. Not that such formal elgibility is any guarantee of or requirement for ability, but most univeristy competition panels have a wide range of experience levels, in both dancing and judging it.
On the flip side, just as these events are a great training ground for competitors, they are potentially a great training ground for judges, too.
Chris Stratton
New Member
I hope not.
Perhaps from the perspective of simple involvement it might help raise awareness of the competition. But from a perspective of the judging panel, I would hope that most teams are more interested in seeing judges they have heard of and respect, than their own specific coaches.
The world does get small at some point though, in that many of the more advanced couples will have had at least a lesson or two with many of the judges they find interesting.
Meagan
Active Member
In response to the original question, it really depends on the judge and how they generally mark they're own couples. (some are probably harder on their own couples some maybe easier)
I think really as long as you are confident that you have a quality judging panel you shouldn't worry to much about it. It's very difficult to find judges for a collegiate comp if you eliminate everyone's coaches (as its a very specific circuit really). I think it was Eric that mentioned it, but if you have a big enough panel (and try to balance it well) it should sort of cancel itself out a bit (IMO 3 is never enough!!)
I think really as long as you are confident that you have a quality judging panel you shouldn't worry to much about it. It's very difficult to find judges for a collegiate comp if you eliminate everyone's coaches (as its a very specific circuit really). I think it was Eric that mentioned it, but if you have a big enough panel (and try to balance it well) it should sort of cancel itself out a bit (IMO 3 is never enough!!)
messyjessi
New Member
I have found that when I dance in a competition where my coach is judging, she usually judges me harder than the other competitors because she has higher expectations for her students. I have never really run into a situation where I felt like a judge was biased in favor of his/her students. I think the try to remain as objective as possible.