just curious.... is it ever possible to always look great no matter who your partner?

[yippee1999]

I've heard it said that often the "best" NYC social dancers will only dance with people they know. Which brings up a question I've always wondered about.... if you are considered to be a great dancer, will you always look "great" no matter who you dance with, and no matter what their level?

I think it would be very difficult to be at your best if your partner is a real beginner, or is off-beat, etc. I have seen some videos of certain women who always come off looking superb, but I also know that the men they are dancing with are also known to be great leads, and men with whom they have presumably danced before, and/or where the particular dance was somewhat choreographed. One time I happened upon another video of one of these particular women, and I was really surprised at how different her dancing was. Instead of coming across as a top dancer, she looked more like an intermediate, and at some moments, like a beginner/intermediate. The video did not indicate the name of the man (as this woman's videos usually do), which made me think he was just a "regular guy", and that someone shot the video just because of who SHE was, and not because of BOTH of them. I assumed it had to be an old video where she hadn't yet had as much experience as she does now, but in fact I learned it was a very recent video. So it made me wonder.... do lots of those great social dancers hang in little cliques, to sort of dissuade the newbies from coming over to them and asking them to dance? Is that how they always manage to look so great each and every time they dance?

 

[englezul]

I've heard it said that often the "best" NYC social dancers will only dance with people they know. Which brings up a question I've always wondered about.... if you are considered to be a great dancer, will you always look "great" no matter who you dance with, and no matter what their level?

I think it would be very difficult to be at your best if your partner is a real beginner, or is off-beat, etc. I have seen some videos of certain women who always come off looking superb, but I also know that the men they are dancing with are also known to be great leads, and men with whom they have presumably danced before, and/or where the particular dance was somewhat choreographed. One time I happened upon another video of one of these particular women, and I was really surprised at how different her dancing was. Instead of coming across as a top dancer, she looked more like an intermediate, and at some moments, like a beginner/intermediate. The video did not indicate the name of the man (as this woman's videos usually do), which made me think he was just a "regular guy", and that someone shot the video just because of who SHE was, and not because of BOTH of them. I assumed it had to be an old video where she hadn't yet had as much experience as she does now, but in fact I learned it was a very recent video. So it made me wonder.... do lots of those great social dancers hang in little cliques, to sort of dissuade the newbies from coming over to them and asking them to dance? Is that how they always manage to look so great each and every time they dance?

Great dancers hang out in little cliques because that's their social group. Everybody associates with people of their own liking, that possess qualities they themselves possess or appreciate. It's just peer selection. One always associates with someone who can either help them grow or is himself growing. I don't think they care about newbies asking them as they can always say no.

Another reason why this is happening is because really good dancers are really involved. They practice, they coreograph, they organize, they perform, and in these endeavours they get to meet the other people who practice, coreograph, organize, and perform. Thus they get to know eachother and of course they will enjoy hanging out and dancing together, because they are of same level.

They look great because they are great dancers. Of course when they dance with a bad dancer their talent is somewhat stiffled, because they can't rely on their partener and have to compensate for their lack of skill, or talent, or what have you. Or they just break into shines and they go back to looking good.

And sometimes people just have bad days .

 

[samina]

i'm no expert, but i do know that there are people who won't dance with inexperienced dancers. and i do know that there are people who are *very* concerned with how they look on the dance floor. i've seen it in the eyes of partners in both the salsa & the ballroom world -- they are very sensitive about how others are perceiving their dancing. i think it's probly pretty common knowledge that these types will gravitate away from anyone who might compromise their image on the floor.

i also know that in some communities, new people experience a kind of "audition" feeling their first night on the floor, and if you show that you can pass muster, only then will dance requests start rolling in.

i personally don't fall into these categories, and i'm always slightly saddened when i'm with someone who's afraid that others will think he's a poor dancer if i've hit a glitch somewhere and interrupt the flow.

but something else i will say -- my instructors *ALWAYS* look great on the dance floor, no matter who their dancing with. so, if they can dance for themselves while also focusing on their partner & giving pleasure to any audience that might be watching, i think it's certainly possible for anyone to achieve that.

 

[alemana]

it is not a parallel situation for leaders as for follows. the follow's ability too 'look good' is impacted far more by the lead than the reverse.

there are, for sure, many people in the highly-competitive scene in nyc who are hyper-aware of how they look on the floor and conspire fervently not to tarnish their image. there are, some in the same group, people who are deeply uncomfortable refusing a dance, so these doubly-constricted people tend to mark off a very circumscribed area for themselves in the room and not stray from it.

the cliquishness in nyc isn't just about dancers at similar ability levels sticking together. some superadvanced socialize only with other dancers, and at the other end of the spectrum, some have totally separate social lives. the superadvanced who are over the whole performperformperform part of their training have the time in their lives for other kinds of friendships. those who are still climbing the ladder/trying to make a career out of dancing obviously have a different perspective.

 

[yola]

I don't (by far) place myself equal to the big names. but i'm an advanced dancer in my neck of the woods, teaching and performing.
When i dance with advanced leads, i just have fun, do what i want / feel like (within the limits of his lead, of course :raisebro. I hope i look good doing that (and if not, what the h*, i'm having fun doing it!)
But, when dancing with a beginner/intermediate lead, i deliberately tone it down. I know it's difficult for beginner dancers (esp leaders) to ask ladies, it's a big step to dance openly on the social dancefloor at all.. So what i try to do, is make them comfortable and happy. I smile at them and follow without confusing them (too much) with styling. And even without máking him follow the beat.

so I can imagine, if you look at me dancing with a beginner, it doesn't look like i'm advanced at all.

 

[cornutt]

if you are considered to be a great dancer, will you always look "great" no matter who you dance with, and no matter what their level?

Let me ask a heretical question:

Why worry about it?

 

[samina]

Let me ask a heretical question:

Why worry about it?

i bet you're a ball o' fun on the dance floor, cornutt... no matter the lady's skill level

 

[squirrel]

I know a lady who can look good no matter who she dances with (absolute beginner or very advanced dancer). Still, the guys who dance with her told me they don't particularly like it, since she is dancing for herself. She follows and smiles and moves around, but they get the impression she is actually dancing with herself and for herself and the enjoyment is not coming because of the partner. She, in other words, is self sufficient.

Now - to answer the question: it is normal for advanced dancers to prefer those of equal skills, when they have a choice. I doubt they would do that in Bucharest though, as the style here is different. Not dance-wise, but behaviour-wise. People like to invite others and women are not afraid of "dance stars" - and the advanced foreign dancers seem to like it.

NY sounds very cliquish (hope the spelling is right) from what I have been reading here and also based on others' live perception. I have to visit this place... you guys make me very curious...

 

[fallenangel]

Great dancers hang out in little cliques because that's their social group. Everybody associates with people of their own liking, that possess qualities they themselves possess or appreciate. It's just peer selection. One always associates with someone who can either help them grow or is himself growing. I don't think they care about newbies asking them as they can always say no.

Another reason why this is happening is because really good dancers are really involved. They practice, they coreograph, they organize, they perform, and in these endeavours they get to meet the other people who practice, coreograph, organize, and perform. Thus they get to know eachother and of course they will enjoy hanging out and dancing together, because they are of same level.

They look great because they are great dancers. Of course when they dance with a bad dancer their talent is somewhat stiffled, because they can't rely on their partener and have to compensate for their lack of skill, or talent, or what have you. Or they just break into shines and they go back to looking good.

And sometimes people just have bad days .

Totally agree with you! Glad i'm not alone

 

[tangotime]

funny

reminds me of the old teaching joke, when someone says " I dont want to dance with you, because i may make you look bad--the reply " I dont need any help "" !!

 

[Sabor]

if you are considered to be a great dancer, will you always look "great" no matter who you dance with, and no matter what their level?

yes.. one can look great even if their partner ain't all that.. never as great as if they both were hot ofcourse.. and if in a partner dance comp they'd look entirely cwap

 

[Sagitta]

Definitely. I dance with this one lady who finds it difficult to keep to the salsa beat as it usually is too fast for her. I slow down and dance half time? That is one basic in 8 beats vs the normal 4 quite a bit, if not the whole dance. She enjoys herself and loves dancing with me and others say that she looks better dancing with me than with others and that we look good together. The point of dancing is to enjoy oneself and if one strives to make the dance feel good for both it shows. I often dance with newcomers and then see others going to ask them to dance.

I have often said that a lot of the technical details don't matter to me as I feel there is way too much fixation on this rather than what I consider to be more important aspects of dance. I adhere more closely to the philosophy
of "enjoyable dance conversation".

 

[naturallove]

it is not a parallel situation for leaders as for follows. the follow's ability too 'look good' is impacted far more by the lead than the reverse.

there are, for sure, many people in the highly-competitive scene in nyc who are hyper-aware of how they look on the floor and conspire fervently not to tarnish their image. there are, some in the same group, people who are deeply uncomfortable refusing a dance, so these doubly-constricted people tend to mark off a very circumscribed area for themselves in the room and not stray from it.

the cliquishness in nyc isn't just about dancers at similar ability levels sticking together. some superadvanced socialize only with other dancers, and at the other end of the spectrum, some have totally separate social lives. the superadvanced who are over the whole performperformperform part of their training have the time in their lives for other kinds of friendships. those who are still climbing the ladder/trying to make a career out of dancing obviously have a different perspective.

I'd definitely agree that's it's a lot easier for a leader to look good with a follower of dissimilar ability than visa versa. In fact, one of the hallmarks of a good lead is to really meet the follower where they are (in terms of dance level) and still create a great experience for the follower. I could be a great follower, but if a lead is jerking and flinging me around the dance floor, it's just really hard to look good.
That said, I try to dance with everyone. I've seen leads go from terrible to AMAZING in the matter of a year, and I figure they'll remember who danced with them when they weren't the greatest!:raisebro: ITwo women who I really respect are Magna Gopal and Christina Zavala (of Descarga Caribe). Both women are world class dancers, but will dance with everyone. I've particularly noticed this with Christina. I've seen her dance with the most beginning of leads, and she is incredibly gracious and kind. I've heard several guys also talk about how nice she is and how readily she will dance with any lead. That's class, IMO.

 

[Sagitta]

I remember, for sure.

 

[englezul]

Magna Gopal and Christina Zavala (of Descarga Caribe). Both women are world class dancers, but will dance with everyone. I've particularly noticed this with Christina. I've seen her dance with the most beginning of leads, and she is incredibly gracious and kind. I've heard several guys also talk about how nice she is and how readily she will dance with any lead. That's class, IMO.

Magna does not dance with everyone.