Just when you thought you knew ever style of tango . . .

[Zoopsia59]

We used to discuss technique across styles, and when there was a difference because of style, we would discuss the movement -

We still do.. there have been a number of threads lately picking apart the technique of various moves such as the molinete (in both CW and CCW forms) and the ocho cortado. In fact, we have picked apart the technique of those moves and others repeatedly over the time I've posted here. I'm actually getting a little tired of writing the same posts over and over explaining how I do them or what I think of them. Maybe we should have some "sticky" threads that we can post those instructions to for newbies to look up?

It seems to me that the problem is not that technique isn't discussed anymore, but that threads that are about something else get emphasized disproportionately in people's minds because they want specific posters to shut up and go away.

I think that people tend to respond to posters rather than to posts (and I have been guilty of this as well recently) and are predisposed by the attitude mentioned above (wanting them to go away) to react negatively when they see certain people have posted. If someone else besides Jan posted something about this festival or link and its indication of yet another unheard of style (and included an eye roll) I doubt the response would have been as negative as it is.

So people's response to posts are just as much of a factor in negative threads as the original posts/posters.

We've all been here awhile. Most of us are predictable in how we post. A couple of people surprise me with new insight (or a new attitude) sometimes but its happening less and less (and always a joy when it does)

Anyone can direct the forum any direction they like by starting the kind of thread they want to see. If people want to discuss technique, then they should start some technique threads! Pick an element and start discussing it in all its forms and nuances.

Why wait for someone else to start threads on technique and then be annoyed that the threads being started aren't to your liking?

 

[Me]

If that is how you feel, I respect that. All I ask is that you please do not take my words out of context.

We used to discuss technique across styles, and when there was a difference because of style, we would discuss the movement - We would not tell anybody they were "wrong," dancing "fake" tango, "ripping people off", etc.

 

[Peaches]

Agreed. You bring up very good points...which I have a tendency to forget. However, there are also plenty of instances where an otherwise good thread has gotten derailed by people going off about how something isn't tango, or isn't real, or some other unrelated bit of griping. Of course, the best response is to ignore it and continue on.

Note to self: think twice before posting.

 

[dchester]

We still do.. there have been a number of threads lately picking apart the technique of various moves such as the molinete (in both CW and CCW forms) and the ocho cortado. In fact, we have picked apart the technique of those moves and others repeatedly over the time I've posted here. I'm actually getting a little tired of writing the same posts over and over explaining how I do them or what I think of them. Maybe we should have some "sticky" threads that we can post those instructions to for newbies to look up?

It seems to me that the problem is not that technique isn't discussed anymore, but that threads that are about something else get emphasized disproportionately in people's minds because they want specific posters to shut up and go away.

I think that people tend to respond to posters rather than to posts (and I have been guilty of this as well recently) and are predisposed by the attitude mentioned above (wanting them to go away) to react negatively when they see certain people have posted. If someone else besides Jan posted something about this festival or link and its indication of yet another unheard of style (and included an eye roll) I doubt the response would have been as negative as it is.

So people's response to posts are just as much of a factor in negative threads as the original posts/posters.

We've all been here awhile. Most of us are predictable in how we post. A couple of people surprise me with new insight (or a new attitude) sometimes but its happening less and less (and always a joy when it does)

Anyone can direct the forum any direction they like by starting the kind of thread they want to see. If people want to discuss technique, then they should start some technique threads! Pick an element and start discussing it in all its forms and nuances.

Why wait for someone else to start threads on technique and then be annoyed that the threads being started aren't to your liking?

Good post.

I was (a bit) surprised to the strong negative reaction to the OP. IMO, Jantango was simply expressing an opinion about a supposed new style. Since none of us have seen it yet (and there sure was no information on their website about it), it's difficult to know if they actually have a new product, or if it's just new marketing of the same stuff.

 

[Me]

I think the discussion does sometimes reflect negatively on tango, but you withdrawing your participation won't help Me. I think the best way to fight it is to keep posting constructive and helpful information. :friend:

I am sending you a pm.

 

[Zoopsia59]

If that is how you feel, I respect that. All I ask is that you please do not take my words out of context.

I'm sorry... you are right about the context you were trying to convey and my somewhat overgeneralized answer to the bigger problem. I should have made most of my post without a specific quote as though I was ONLY replying to you personally.

However, I still think that what you are saying DOES get discussed. Even in threads about moves, there may be posts that basically say "that style is wrong", but there are also posts that say "If you are doing this in OE, it's this way, but in CE, its that way to execute the move".

If that specific aspect of a move (variations between styles) isn't being discussed, then you can always add that stuff to the discussion if you'd like to see more of it and just ignore the people who try to derail your answer into a validation of styles. I get the impression that you are skilled in a variety of styles and your knowledge of those differences would be a valuable contribution. Instead of leaving because of how others post, it makes more sense to me to post what you want to see more of ("be the change you want to see in the world" sort of thing) No?

 

[Zoopsia59]

Athere are also plenty of instances where an otherwise good thread has gotten derailed by people going off about how something isn't tango, or isn't real, or some other unrelated bit of griping. Of course, the best response is to ignore it and continue on.
.

And sometimes it isn't unrelated griping... its just unrelated.

Or repetitive.

I generally skip the posts that delve into complex music theory... again.

Or entomology of words.

Or the "history" of tango in its early roots that no one agrees on. Prostitutes? Lower classes? Influences of Africa? Europe? What.Ev.er.

I don't care that much about 9/16 rhythm (is there such a thing?.. rhetorical! please don't answer!) the way americans misuse "irony", or which origin of tango from 1890 has the most relevance (well, at least 2 of those 3 topics are actually about tango!) I also don't care that much if some people think there is only one way to dance tango. They can't actually change the way I dance here in my hometown, so who cares?

The only reason the posts you describe derail a thread is because people focus on them.. or get annoyed that other people respond to them.

Some people want to control how others dance. Other people want to control how people TALK about dancing. I'd like to control how people respond to people who dislike how other people talk about how other people should dance... (which I guess means I want to control myself too? EEEKKK! I've backed myself into a corner! )

We're all control freaks in our own ways.

Just skip what you don't like reading. (Am I a control freak for telling you to do that and not liking it if you don't?... sigh... can't get out of this corner! )

 

[Angel HI]

This is actually a good thread.

1. It shows what can/has happened when a poster is antagonistic and gets a bad rep. Jan's orig. post could have been taken as something all of us b----- about, a new style every day. Yet, b/c of her usual character/attitude, she has developed such a bad rep for herself on the DF, that most persons immediately think that she is just being Jan, and reply accordingly. (a boy who cried wolf kinda thingy) The point... be constructive and respectful of others, and help make the forum the one that Me, and others, misses/miss so much.

2. It has developed a dialogue of what we want from these boards, and hopefully can move us... renew us in those directions.

Having said that, Zoops, your Estilo Tanngo Arthritco did crack me up. I seem to be dancing that more and more.

 

[Dave Bailey]

Good post.

I was (a bit) surprised to the strong negative reaction to the OP. IMO, Jantango was simply expressing an opinion about a supposed new style.

Actually, I still have no idea what the OP was about.

 

[Mario7]

This is actually a good thread.
1. It shows what can/has happened when a poster is antagonistic and gets a bad rep. Jan's orig. post could have been taken as something all of us b----- about, a new style every day. Yet, b/c of her usual character/attitude, she has developed such a bad rep for herself on the DF, that most persons immediately think that she is just being Jan, and reply accordingly. (a boy who cried wolf kinda thingy)

Jan lives the Argentine Tango. She has obviously devoted her entire life to the love of it. She lives where it is happening and participates in the culture every day. She is also a defender of that culture and tells it like it is. She challenges the commercialization and cheapening of dance called Argentine Tango. She gets a bad rap among those who prefer things to be more accepting to being co-opted. She don't kiss no body's culo.

 

[gregolam]

This is actually a good thread.

1. It shows what can/has happened when a poster is antagonistic and gets a bad rep. Jan's orig. post could have been taken as something all of us b----- about, a new style every day. Yet, b/c of her usual character/attitude, she has developed such a bad rep for herself on the DF, that most persons immediately think that she is just being Jan, and reply accordingly. (a boy who cried wolf kinda thingy) The point... be constructive and respectful of others, and help make the forum the one that Me, and others, misses/miss so much.

2. It has developed a dialogue of what we want from these boards, and hopefully can move us... renew us in those directions.

Having said that, Zoops, your Estilo Tanngo Arthritco did crack me up. I seem to be dancing that more and more.

Actually...it might not be a bad idea to have a better way to organize and/or categorize the vast collection of threads. I know some people here are more interested in discussing or debating only certain types of topics, and the search tools can at times be less than helpful in a pinch (as Dave is finding out in one of his other posts).

I know when I first came on here it would have been massively helpful to have had subforums for specific topics I was interested in at the time (I.E. beginners oriented threads, technique, theory, history, style discussions, etc. Since I am sure that all I did was re-ask a bunch of questions you all had answered ten thousand times before.

I mean I apologize to the moderators as I am sure it would vastly increase the amount of work they had to do. Either all posts could be moved after awhile into one of the subforum categories, or certain master threads could be contained there with only the most relevant and best posts.

If anyone thinks this is a topic worth exploring, maybe someone could start a thread about it?

 

[Subliminal]

I am liking the idea of a wiki. I'm looking into the free wikis available online, if it's too much trouble for the DF admins to put one in. I think that'd be the best way to organize things.

 

[Dave Bailey]

I am liking the idea of a wiki. I'm looking into the free wikis available online, if it's too much trouble for the DF admins to put one in. I think that'd be the best way to organize things.

Didn't we have this debate a while back?

I've had some experience of implementing Wiki systems, I'm happy to help out.

 

[Subliminal]

I thought the outcome of the debate was that it was a good idea, but no one wanted to do it.

What do you think of Wikia? I put together a quick page just to see if I could:

http://argentinetango.wikia.com

If people want to sign up and start making edits, that's one way to get things moving.

 

[Angel HI]

Jan lives the Argentine Tango. She has obviously devoted her entire life to the love of it. She lives where it is happening and participates in the culture every day. She is also a defender of that culture and tells it like it is. She challenges the commercialization and cheapening of dance called Argentine Tango. She gets a bad rap among those who prefer things to be more accepting to being co-opted. She don't kiss no body's culo.

PM coming.

But, for right now. Knock it off. No more talk about it.