Lead learning to follow - is it helpful?

[Pat]

I'm starting to learn the follower's part
- because I want to see what a good lead should feel like
- so I can better follow my teacher when I'm being shown how to lead a new pattern

I'm curious how many leads know how to follow; and if so, did it improve their leading abilities?

-Pat

 

[Sagitta]

I do a little following, but not as much as I would like. In the beginner latin classes that I help out with I switch to the follower role to help leaders out with a particular move etc.. It definitely helps.

 

[clave]

I'm sure learning to follow will improve your dancing.

I, personally, would only consider doing it if I decided to start teaching dance, not because I don't think it would be useful but rather because I have so much to learn and so little free time that it's pretty low on my list of priorities. (For instance, I'd really like to learn some beyond-basic cha-cha so I won't have to sit out the cha-chas in clubs. Heck, even merengue and bachata would come in useful. And argentine tango looks really sexy. You get the idea...)

 

[sanityhaven]

I think it would help.

- because I want to see what a good lead should feel like

I know that when I'm having trouble leading a step, I have someone lead me through it. It usually gives me a good idea about how the step is done.

I imagine that by learning to follow, you'll realize things that followers can be frustrated about.

Out of curiousity, how long have you been dancing? Also, keep us posted on your progress, I'm definitely interested in how it improves your technique.

 

[azzey]

I'm starting to learn the follower's part
- because I want to see what a good lead should feel like
- so I can better follow my teacher when I'm being shown how to lead a new pattern

I'm curious how many leads know how to follow; and if so, did it improve their leading abilities?

-Pat

In one word yes, but I would say 99% of what I learnt to be a follower I did without dancing as a follower. More explanation below..

Learning the followers part is beneficial for several reasons:

- Good connection is not obvious, a bad connection is immediately obvious! You realise the things you're not doing. Hand grips, 5 points of contact with your partner (including eye contact), springy/compression feeling, posture etc.
- How important timing and momentum is to feeling in sync and the connection with your partner.
- Preparation is key to leading the simplest move. Complex moves are simply a series of basics to a specific timing. Get yourself in a good position (footwork). Signal the girl *before* you want her to do something so that she can prepare. Learn what signals are clear and what is *ambiguous* or just plain unintelligable.
- Looking at the girls steps, body position, timing for a specific move and knowledge of technique will enable you to breakdown the move and work-out for yourself what you need to do in order to do it well. Once you learn this skill of breaking down moves you will be able to watch anybody dancing and learn from them.
- An appreciation of how bad most leaders are. You would think the girls are mind-readers. Practice makes per.. well actually it doesn't, it just makes you conditioned and comfortable with whatever you're used to. Accept it. Growing as a dancer can be uncomfortable for a while for both lead and follow as they take time to adjust.

Increased awareness will enable you to adjust your dancing, try out things as a leader and improve.

How much you get from a few dances as a follower depends somewhat on your level of technical awareness and having a good leader to dance with. Most girls who are good followers are not good leaders so taking a few privates would be a good idea. Then trying to dance with some of your male friends! You will get an appreciation for their faults and your own.

Learning the technical aspects can also be done by taking regular classes or watching a instruction video/social video clip and breaking down the moves step by step, beat by beat.

Videos have the added benefit that you can see a (known) good leader perform the move with a good follower. Difficult to do when you're following as you're having to concentrate.

You make up your mind which of these you can learn from following or from other applied methods.

You know when you have a good appreciation of the followers role when you can teach someone who's never danced before the technique and feel of the dance. This includes from both a leader and followers perspective.

Whenever I get a new video or download a new clip of social dancing I probably spend as much time if not more breaking down the girls movement to improve my awareness.

Hope this helps and is not too much information.

 

[MacMoto]

I'm curious how many leads know how to follow; and if so, did it improve their leading abilities?

I don't know many guys who dance as follwers or have shown any desire to learn. It's probably because our scene is short of men and leaders are always in demand. As in any follow-heavy scene, we have plenty of women who are learning to lead....

I think it's a good idea to try the other part even if you don't intend to dance regularly in that role as it helps you understand and appreciate what's involved. A guy who did it told me how scary it was not to know what was coming.

 

[Sabor]

As in any follow-heavy scene, we have plenty of women who are learning to lead....

so long as the ladies dont grow beards, develop deeper voices and muscular torso's .. its fine by me :mrgreen:

 

[azzey]

I don't know many guys who dance as follwers or have shown any desire to learn.

You may not know who has. We don't like to advertise it. Most high intermediate/advanced leaders would have practiced following at some point.

I think it's a good idea to try the other part even if you don't intend to dance regularly in that role as it helps you understand and appreciate what's involved. A guy who did it told me how scary it was not to know what was coming.

I found it quite relaxing. Not having to concentrate on so many things at the same time.

 

[MacMoto]

I don't know many guys who dance as follwers or have shown any desire to learn.

You may not know who has. We don't like to advertise it.

:lol: That's very true. Do you see more guys openly taking the follower's role in the London scene (either male-male or male-femal role reversal), or is it the same as up here?

 

[mexi_gabacho]

I actually like it..... sometimes

I help out with classes quite often as a follower and occationally even will dance as a follower in clubs (guys... good tip... with the lady instructors, they get a kick out of leading guys in clubs every once in while, especially if you flirt with them, do hip rolls to make them laugh, etc.) . I would say that it DEFINITELY helps your lead for many of the reasons already stated. (Primarily, the part about realizing how BAD most leads are).

I also agree with what someone else said... it can be relaxing to not have to worry about so much when dancing.

Some of the other benefits:

All of the turning makes you realize to "take it easy on the girls" when you dance with them. It's not easy to just keep turning and spinnning constantly. Sometimes a really good basic and some simple moves REALLY DO FEEL BETTER for some girls (except maybe the 'spin happy' ones )

The importance of placing your hand on her shoulder blade NOT her back. I see this mistake all the time and let me tell you.... as a follower, it CAN really hurt when you are getting pushed and pulled by the middle or lower back.

It makes you much better on your feet. You become more relaxed with moving yourself and the follower around because you learn what a follower's instinct is on certain moves and can learn how to make your intentions undeniable.

I mean, really... that is the most important thing for leads, right?

One who makes his intentions undeniable, is relaxed and moves effortlessly, and has good technique (proper hand placement, etc.).

So, anyway... to answer the question.....

YES. It helps.

 

[Tetsuyama]

Just thought I'd second mexi_gabacho's post, and add some additional comments. Knowing the follower's part should make it easier to improvise, or make your improvised patterns better; if you know how to follow, you'll know better what's possible and what a good lead is. It comes in very handy if you don't have a regular partner, for those (other) leads with enough experience and creativity. And it seems like most of the more advanced (more advanced than me, which sadly isn't saying much) leads I know are actually also passable follows.

 

[JoanOfArcadia338]

i messed up and don't know where the delete button is..ignore this post

 

[tsb]

I'm starting to learn the follower's part
- because I want to see what a good lead should feel like
- so I can better follow my teacher when I'm being shown how to lead a new pattern

I'm curious how many leads know how to follow; and if so, did it improve their leading abilities?

-Pat

it does. while i think it helps to reach a certain level of proficiency as a leader first before doing so, it never hurts to know the follower's footwork. just doing the footwork & understanding the mechanics often gives me insight as to how to make my lead more clear as well as what kind of support she may need, especially in AT.

 

[sanityhaven]

while i think it helps to reach a certain level of proficiency as a leader first before doing

How much experience should a lead have to benefit most from this?

 

[tsb]

while i think it helps to reach a certain level of proficiency as a leader first before doing

How much experience should a lead have to benefit most from this?

the thing is that leaders already do learn to follow as part of the learning process - they lead a move, the follow responds, then the leader responds to the follower, especially if the follower did something other than what the leader intended. my take is that the good leader follows the follower so that whatever the follower did looks like it was what the leader intended all along.

as always, YMMV, but my take is that if one's primary goal is to dance the leader's part, it's better to "imprint" all the things that leaders need to consider that may in some way be counter to certain skills (& mindset) that good followers develop. some things are as simple as remembering which foot to start on, especially since most dances have the leader's left foot starting forward. if one's goal is to do both well, then learning both simultaneously might be better even though it may take longer overall to develop proficiency at both roles.

if you have any musical background, it's kinda like developing the embouchre to play a woodwind instrument vs. playing a brass instrument. i'd been playing brass for over twenty years before i started playing sax & i had to unlearn a brass embouchre which requires a certain amount of muscular tension to generate the buzz whereas that tension is counterproductive in developing an embouchre for sax to generate a silky tone. it's possible to play both well, but if you have to practice different skills & build a different muscle memory (and i think for leading & following different cognitive temperments).