Leaders. How was your Tango journey?

Rabbit said:
Oh i didn't refer to pedagogical technique generally, I'm quite aware that I'm relatively inexperienced at teaching but fortunately I have friends whom are professional educators that I can seek advice from. What I meant is I don't know how to teach some of the things that I can do myself.
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Oh, I doubt I could do that either. But you would only need to teach a few basics if you stuck to intro and intermediate classes.
 
Bailango said:
Almost everyone that I knows takes privates every day or every other day on their one week or two week trip to BsAs. They will also go to practicas and occasionally attend groups class at famous academies.

Yes dance 4-5 hours each night, sometimes at two milongas a night.

With most of them, I see no improvement in their dancing after they return from BsAs. Having taken privates, etc. Which to me indicates their inability to grasp necessary building blocks on which to build their dancing. Also they lack technical fundamentals. Despite them telling they worked on things in privates that I would recognize as fundamentals.

People who improve the most and become better dancers are those that know how to learn. They don’t need to go to BsAs. They have grown as a dancer locally.

Which reinforces my belief to a large set of people, dancing is just a set of movements. The quality of movement and applying it to express the music is something they can’t grasp and are incapable of.
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People that can learn on their own by going to just group classes are probably very talented, or have some background in dance (ballet, ballroom). I know a lot of people that go to just many group classes with different instructors, and I haven't noticed that they have progressed very much. I am talking about at least 2 group classes and 2 practicas per week. Like no difference within 6 months time period that I observed; they seem to be stuck. I also don't believe that dancing more at practicas would help them, since simply there is no enough attention in group classes to tell them exactly what they need to improve. So, they keep doing the same things over and over (incorrectly)

I think private classes take time. I've been doing them for 6 months weekly (1 per week) in combination with group classes, practicas, milongas, and the progress has been great. I do 2 group classes, 1 private, 2 practicas, 1 milonga per week, and 15 minutes per day at home just by myself. I would do more, but my legs are just sore lol. I feel that I need to come to practicas and milongas fresh, to really give it 100% to the follower. Otherwise, If I am tired, it is all becoming robotic or I make more mistakes.

Which kind of brings another question. When do you stop going to group classes? Is it 2-3 year mark? I find that my group classes are becoming the same. Combinations seem to start repeating themselves.
I use group classes for learning combinations. I polish/clean them at my private classes.
I used to struggle with learning combinations at my intermediate/advanced group classes 6 months ago. Now I seem to get them quickly, but they seem to start repeating themselves. I start feeling that I don't learn much anymore at group classes.
 
Pharaoh said:
People that can learn on their own by going to just group classes are probably very talented, or have some background in dance (ballet, ballroom). I know a lot of people that go to just many group classes with different instructors, and I haven't noticed that they have progressed very much. I am talking about at least 2 group classes and 2 practicas per week. Like no difference within 6 months time period that I observed; they seem to be stuck. I also don't believe that dancing more at practicas would help them, since simply there is no enough attention in group classes to tell them exactly what they need to improve. So, they keep doing the same things over and over (incorrectly)

I think private classes take time. I've been doing them for 6 months weekly (1 per week) in combination with group classes, practicas, milongas, and the progress has been great. I do 2 group classes, 1 private, 2 practicas, 1 milonga per week, and 15 minutes per day at home just by myself. I would do more, but my legs are just sore lol. I feel that I need to come to practicas and milongas fresh, to really give it 100% to the follower. Otherwise, If I am tired, it is all becoming robotic or I make more mistakes.

Which kind of brings another question. When do you stop going to group classes? Is it 2-3 year mark? I find that my group classes are becoming the same. Combinations seem to start repeating themselves.
I use group classes for learning combinations. I polish/clean them at my private classes.
I used to struggle with learning combinations at my intermediate/advanced group classes 6 months ago. Now I seem to get them quickly, but they seem to start repeating themselves. I start feeling that I don't learn much anymore at group classes.
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Find group classes with good teachers where the combination/step isn’t the main goal but just an example of an underlying a main concept of the dance. For example there was a recent class about close embrace sacada turns, and they explained the nuance of every part of the movement and why it differs in open embrace and it’s also practical (albeit with only advanced dancers) at milongas.

Compare that with group classes where it’s just a big long sequence that’s barely useable in a crowded milonga and they don’t really explain the biomechanics well.
 
Pharaoh said:
People that can learn on their own by going to just group classes are probably very talented, or have some background in dance (ballet, ballroom).
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Due to tango not having generally agreed standards or qualifications there are a lot of ineffective group classes (and a lot of ineffective private lessons too.) If you don't think you are getting anything out of yours anymore, try ones run by different teachers if available. Or you can switch over to the self-directed route but pay really close attention to feedback if you do.
 
Pharaoh said:
Which kind of brings another question. When do you stop going to group classes?
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For me, the biggest value from group classes was social – making friends with followers I then danced with in milongas. Most of my learning was done in privates (or, arguably, while dancing in milongas).
 
TTanguero said:
For me, the biggest value from group classes was social – making friends with followers I then danced with in milongas. Most of my learning was done in privates (or, arguably, while dancing in milongas).
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I will have to go to various different group classes and practicalongas if I have to get familiar with the current generation of tango dancers in our scene. Yes what you say works. But it is not sustainable. The classes are hit and miss. Most will be leader heavy. There is no guarantee that it will more than 5 to 6 couples.

There is also a big downside to familiarity through group classes. A lot of good followers don’t attend group classes. Now the followers that aren’t enjoyable to dance with become familiar with you. Then at milongas they either expect you to dance with them or will come and ask verbally. If asked I don’t say no. If they expect me to ask, I will oblige every other milonga.
 
Pharaoh said:
..Which kind of brings another question. When do you stop going to group classes?
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There are certain issues you can only learn in group classes, and others you can't.

In Group Classes:
-Learning or refreshing standard vocabulary
-Networking and finding dance partners

Not in Group Classes:
-Posture, quality of movement
-Musicality
 
opendoor said:
There are certain issues you can only learn in group classes, and others you can't.

In Group Classes:
-Learning or refreshing standard vocabulary
-Networking and finding dance partners

Not in Group Classes:
-Posture, quality of movement
-Musicality
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Sort of. You can "refresh" standard vocabulary even in a private class. Although that may not be the best use of an expensive class. But it could be if there were something specific you wanted to learn from that teacher.
 
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