Leaders. How was your Tango journey?

I noticed, most of the followers come to just dance at our Practilongas, not practicing anything. When I dance, I ask a lot "What do you want to practice, anything specific?" A lot of them don't know the answer to this question, and reply they just want to dance.
This is quite common. Followers have to learn to adapt to different leads and they have to familiarise themselves with a wide vocabulary so just dancing without being told, in advance, what the leader will attempt to do is actually really useful for the follower (and for the leader as well because then they can be more sure that the follower is reacting to what was actually led, rather than what they were told would be led). So, when a follower says they just want you to dance, it doesn't mean they don't want to practice. Follower's can practice lots of things without telling the leader what they are practicing. Another way to make good use of a practice session is to ask your partner to help you notice the things you want to correct, for example, "I know I sometimes tense my shoulders, please tap me on the back if you feel that to call my attention to it".

Another reason why followers might not have a an answer to this question is because followers have to be in the moment all of the time, so it can be difficult for some of us to remember what moves we've just done, even when we've just finished dancing. It's also harder for us to pinpoint which moves are going wrong and why - the leader knows what they were attempting and whether or not they got the result they expected, but the follower might not even know that anything went wrong.
I am trying to identify a good follower right now to partner up outside of the class, but it is not that easy - not a lot of them go to practicas, practice at home, miss classes. After a week they forgot what was taught during the last class as they weren't practicing. And I need someone more motivated: I practice at home everyday to remember the moves at least 10-15 minutes to the music.
It's good that you practice regularly, but in my opinion remembering the sequence taught in class is not very useful for the followers. If the leader remembers a sequence of steps that can be useful for them because the leader needs to initiate the movements so if they have some ideas of things that they can do then it can cut out some of the hesitation when practicing, but for followers remembering the sequences isn't crucial because followers should be sensing and reacting to what is actually happening in the moment. It is useful for followers to understand how the moves explored in a class work and the aspects of technique required to make them work well, but as a follower you wouldn't ordinarily try to memorise a set sequence of steps.

With that in mind, when it comes to finding people to practice with, at this stage I don't think you need to be too picky. As long as you don't have conflicting goals or dance styles, your schedules allow you to find some time to practice together, and you get along reasonably well, practicing together should help you both improve, even if they are less advanced/dedicated than you. You say you want someone more motivated, of course that would be ideal, but if you can't find someone like that then I think accepting someone who isn't as motivated is better than having no one. You never know, your dedication might rub off on them.

Your other option would be to go down the private lesson route, and if your finances allow that might be the fastest way to make larger leaps and improve.
 
I am fine with basic walk and steps but this is too boring for advanced followers.
Depends how you do it and your musicality. Six months in, you still need to develop your basic skills. As for prácticas, they were difficult for me as well for a long time. Even at practice dances, people often form groups or dance only with friends, or come with a partner. It helps if there are a lot of people at the práctica and at different levels. Helps if there's a senior person, teacher, etc., to help out. There's no simple solution. How about trying to link up with someone from a class and go with them? That way you'll have a partner to work through a few things.
 
I completely understand the frustration and the situation you’re in. Especially if you’re in the nyc scene and the 2 most popular prácticas are as you described, intermediate-advanced people only dancing with each other, and it’s tough to get practice in if you’re a beginner, even with other beginners since beginner follows want to dance with more experience leads.

There’s a few ways around this but they require effort and honestly it’s dumb how unfriendly and cliquish the tango scene is that you’re in this position.

1. Become a huge extrovert to the point you’re befriending everyone and they’re fine with having a 1 off tanda with you.
2. Find lesser skill practicas (usually newer ones or ones filled with more senior dancers)
3. Find classes that have more of a community, i.e a small práctica after class
4. Take lessons from popular teachers who are socially ingrained in the community that can introduce you to people.
5. Find a dedicated partner you can practice with at the prácticas.

Depending on your situation one may be easier and resonate with you more than others.
But this dilemma is a pattern in many aspects of life. Like an entry level job requiring x years of experience. Or trying to go on a date with a women who wants an experienced guy (despite being just as inexperienced as you).
Basically it’s a tricky situation where you’re trying to improve yourself but others won’t help you because you’re not good enough.
 
My mileage varied for sure! All I did for my first X milongas was walk, change weight, and pause to the beat and the phrase.
This is really a topic for the Tango Lesson thread. I see that 'musicality' teaching in lessons - walk to the beat, weight change, pauses, phrasing. But it's not perceived as 'dance' by an absolute beginner, although obviously a part of it. It's not the need which drew them into AT. If you don't satisfy that 'need', they give up or go elsewhere. With experience we can opine that walking technique is important; we should have spent more time on technique as a beginner; learning the music to express it is really meaningful; following old customs matters or you'll be spurned at the milonga, etc, etc.

For the beginner it may also be about the shoes, or the clothes, or that social group they joined. They had a void in their life that they thought social AT might fill.

Many reasons, but some went for their perception of 'dance', which involves 'moves' to the music - and that's often just 'moves' alone as you're checking your own, and your partner's feet and balance. The 'need' to be satisfied is to 'dance', which is perceived as using moves beyond walking and pausing to the music - and what's frequently taught to keep people at classes. Nowadays, over emphasis on any single aspect (technique, musicality to different orchestras, moves, sequence, etc), doesn't keep people 'dancing'. And, in a group setting, it's difficult for a teacher to satisfy everyone's lesson needs, given an age spectrum, and to keep them coming back.

Our priority one at an early milonga was more about survival getting around the ronda without blocking the flow and doing some 'move' we'd learned. Bonus points if it seemed to fit some music, which we didn't know well at the time. Informally, the practilonga, may have provided something similar to your description. I've seen that more at some post-lesson practice time, which seems a better place where you can stop, and block, and learn floorcraft.
 
walk to the beat, weight change, pauses, phrasing. But it's not perceived as 'dance' by an absolute beginner
That's where our mileage varies. I started with some privates, but then took group classes with other absolute beginners, and they absolutely did experience that as dance.
 
That's where our mileage varies. I started with some privates, but then took group classes with other absolute beginners, and they absolutely did experience that as dance.
Whatever floats your boat and fills your void.

But I also see that single-focus approach resulting in higher attrition rates.
 
I am fine with basic walk.. but this is too boring for advanced followers..
Advanced followers find it boring because you can't do it well, Pharaoh. The basic walk is the most complicated tango figure at all. As long as you cannot walk, it's better to rather lead complicated figures. The basic walk takes at least six years. If you can do it, the advanced followers only want walking from you, be assured.
 
As long as you cannot walk, it's better to rather lead complicated figures. The basic walk takes at least six years. If you can do it, the advanced followers only want walking from you, be assured.
And that's the journey... You get some vocabulary and how to join the moves together. Some basic communication. You learn how to phrase that - musicality. Even some dialects and other variants (vals, milonga). You add to the vocabulary and become fluent with those moves. Then you start to have an effective discussion. Sometimes that's 'simple' (walks); sometimes you explore other complex avenues, even dead-ends, of mutual interest. Unknown advanced follower - Keep It Simple (but walks aren't always simple!).

But put yourself back to the situation of the OP.
 
I read the entire thread before writing this, so I know that much of what I'm going to say has already been said. Rather than comment on others' comments, I'll add a summary of my tango journey. Interpret this as another vote for all the things it votes for. Yes, I'm always this wordy . . . sorry. :)



Context Is Everything: I live in a large city with a metro population of 4.3 million. Tango schools have come and gone, but we've never dipped below 8 and sometimes risen above 10. There are dozens of teachers and thousands of dancers, of which a couple hundred dance regularly. There's at least one tango event, often two, occasionally three per evening; there are afternoon events three days of the week; there are semi-regular (say, seasonal) balls; and there's one large and several small festivals.



I started tango 11 years ago, on April 14, 2013, with group classes. The studio where I did that managed 2-4 sessions a year (sometimes "late winter-spring, summer break, autumn-early winter," sometimes "late winter-early spring, late spring-early summer, late summer-early autumn, late autumn-early winter"). They offered six levels of group classes; I got through those in two years. I found those group classes mediocre for learning tango, but great for: (1) getting to know which teachers I'd want to hire for private lessons, and (2) breaking the ice with people near my level, so I could invite them to dance without apprehension.

I took those classes with my ex. I was fortunate to have a full-time partner, because it meant that I always had someone to analyze progress and attend prácticas with. This advantage meant that we made faster-than-average progress in group classes, which many people attended either alone (and so were put in couples with random partners or accompaniers . . . which I became) or with dance partners who weren't life partners (and so whose working relationship often ended at the door).

Around our second group session, my ex and I hired a private teacher for weekly private lessons. Even after my divorce from my ex, I stayed with this teacher. (She now coaches my current partner and me. Our working relationship with this coach has spanned most of a decade, and she has become our personal friend.)

Between making fast progress, hiring a teacher from the studio, and living 10 minutes away on foot, my ex and I came to the studio owner's attention. She hired my ex as her assistant and me as her barman for the milonga. This was before either of us regularly attended the milonga. This had several good effects:

1. It demystified the milonga. I saw it from the position of someone not trying to invite or be invited, with a bar between me and it for safety. I eavesdropped on "real talk" at the bar, which erased my romantic misconceptions and confirmed that tango, while elegant, wasn't different from any other dance scene on the psychosocial level.

2. The barman gig was very part-time (a single night per week!) and paid modestly, but the pay plus tips for the evening gave me money beyond my pay at my day job, which let me buy proper dance shoes and – far more important – pay for private lessons.

3. I was around the place all that time – I had the keys, the alarm codes, etc. – to set up the bar, clean the place before the milonga, and of course to take my group lessons, attend the weekly práctica, and tend bar – so I became the go-to accompanier for unpartnered followers. This led to me redoing all six levels of group classes many, many times . . . in some cases, 16 times.

With the extra money and the contacts I made, I was able to hire other private teachers. I hired three besides my first. I never worked with all four at once, but there were several months during which I did two or three private lessons a week. I was also able to afford many special-topics classes on stuff like canyengue, embrace, milonga, off-axis movements, vals, . . . you name it.

The studio also backed a festival. I became one of its barmen and was an accompanier at its workshops. Between free workshops and staff pricing on the others, I got to work with many good visiting teachers.

As I improved, I was also trusted to teach free "intro to tango" lessons. I sometimes stood in as the junior teacher to real teachers when someone called in sick. My ex and I took over running the práctica for over a year.

This "golden age" came to an end in 2017, when the studio closed its doors. Unrelated to that, so did my marriage. By then I had plunged into the local tango community, however. Toward the end of that period, I'd been attending my "home" studio's práctica and milonga every week, plus one other práctica and at least two other milongas just about every week, and I'd hosted or taught a fair few people.

That doesn't mean I had an easy time inviting people! At my "home" studio, I knew people but was seen as little better than the part-time barman and janitor; between that and being relatively new, I wasn't a high-status dance partner. At other studios, I was just another beginner-intermediate dancer who didn't know anybody.

In the intervening seven years (from mid-2017 to present) I've kept up that pace or better: I've continued weekly coaching with the teacher I hired in 2013. I get out to at least one práctica and three milongas per week; some weeks I manage five or six milongas. I have a life and dance partner to work with at coaching sessions and prácticas (and, during the pandemic pause, we practiced one or two times per week at home or in the park) – though due to health issues, she has less energy than me and so doesn't attend every milonga with me. Sometimes my coach brings me in as her junior teaching partner when working with couples.

I can say without hesitation that making myself go to all those prácticas and milongas has slowly, over 7 years, won me people to dance with. I can dance every tanda I want to, now. However, that had nothing to do with my early days as a beginner-intermediate dancer. Acceptance came later, when I stopped being a studio lurker and started to circulate. Exposure to all kinds of people who danced in all kinds of ways has been at least as important to my dance development as my coaching sessions.



Stuff I've learned on that journey:

0. Emphasize connection with your partner (embrace, but also listening with your body), musicality, floorcraft for those around you, and technique for yourself . . . in roughly that order. Do not get convinced that vocabulary (elements, steps, figures, patterns, sequences, etc.) matter more than these things – you'll pick that up along the way, inventing it yourself if you're dancing with good musicality and technique. Do everything with intention; do not fall into steps or simply move to the beat, but make each step a jewel, make it count.

1. You can never redo the basics often enough. I took Tango I at least 16 times. I return to basics with my coach all the time. Anybody telling you that you need advanced classes in fancy steps is selling something (namely, advanced classes in fancy steps).

2. You meet people you can dance with in group classes, at milongas, and – if you're in that role – hosting or teaching them. You don't generally meet people you can dance with at prácticas; people are usually there to work with a partner, so bring a partner. I say "generally" and "usually" because recently, there are prácticas that are in reality informal milongas, or practilongas. I don't pretend to understand those.

3. You learn to dance tango in private lessons, by working with your partner(s) at prácticas, and to some extent by dancing with people at the milonga. You don't generally learn much in group lessons, beyond "enough tango to do those other things."

4. Learn patience as well as tango. There's no One Weird Trick to jump into the role of "popular dancer everybody loves to dance with." Trust me . . . I had several tricks, including free event access and working for a studio. That didn't magically put me on dance cards! You must put in your hours, probably 3-4 years of showing up and often being ignored – less if you go out almost every evening, more if you go out just once a week.

5. Don't obsess on level, yours or your partner's. You'll get tandas with people who like your appearance, musicality, how comfy your embrace looks, and how "safe" you are as a partner (which means being good at avoiding collisions, and not leading unmastered movements or movements that don't work in the space available). That isn't what people usually mean by "level," which is technical achievement, not social skills. Social skills are what matters at the milonga.

6. Buy good shoes. :)
 
I should add that if you want to become a show dancer, ignore almost everything I wrote. The show path diverges from the social-dance path very early on. You can try to follow both paths, but in practice that's an option only for career tango dancers. As an amateur with a day job, if you do both, you'll excel at neither.

As a would-be performer, you'll want to focus on vocabulary and technical achievement to be showy enough to be invited to put on shows – and it can't hurt your odds to chase partners of high technical level to draw attention to yourself so that people consider you as a candidate for said shows. Patience might still be a virtue, but you'll need to be aggressive and push; you must sell yourself. Where social dance has "improvisation," "teachers," "prácticas," and "milongas," your world will have "choreographies," "coaches," "rehearsals," and "shows." If you do this, please don't bring it to the milonga, as you'll only annoy and inconvenience social dancers.

But you'll still want good shoes. :)
 
As a would-be performer, you'll want to focus on vocabulary and technical achievement to be showy enough to be invited to put on shows – and it can't hurt your odds to chase partners of high technical level to draw attention to yourself so that people consider you as a candidate for said shows.
Is there really even a demand for this anywhere except Buenos Aires?
 
Is there really even a demand for this anywhere except Buenos Aires?
There is here, I guess. Not one but several local schools offer classes in show tango; several of those schools also offer classes that explicitly practice a choreography and end in a show people pay money to see; we get tango shows all the time at many small, some medium, and even one fairly large show venues, and some of these shows are locally produced, not touring; and we have a locally produced televised dance competition with a big prize, and it attracts show-tango dancers. Also, a large number of the teachers and coaches involved in all this earn their living off it, so while they might not be in shows often or even at all, they trade on being show dancers.

One of my favorite dance partners is essentially a pro show dancer who finds time for social dance. Once in a while, a gang of other show dancers shows up from out of nowhere at her milonga. They aren't all or even mostly from Buenos Aires.
 

Dance Ads

Advertise on Dance Forums Reach dancers, teachers, studios, event organizers, and dance-friendly brands. View ad options
Back
Top