Leaders. How was your Tango journey?

[tango.suenio]

We can blather about the tradition of new leaders learning from the milongueros and not being allowed onto the floor or even through the door of the milonga before three years of practice, but that's another time and place, and out of sight is out of mind for most people – or at best, it's a quaint history lesson that's forgotten the instant the here and now of tango is on display....

...So, people who have danced for less time or taken fewer lessons will see what's possible. And when they do, for the vast majority, those possibilities become one of their top motivations, their top motivation, or even their only motivation. That's human nature, and human nature is far stronger than tango traditions.

Yet somehow past tango traditions did manage to tame human nature, thus their namesake.

There's a parallel phenomenon in the arts. The same "democratized" media let anybody publish drivel writing, videos with no production values, and so on. The same opinion and propaganda machine has won a popularity contest to sell the view that art doesn't take skill and effort, only ideas and feelings.

Back to the foundational societal question of where and whether noble tastes matter more than popular energy. I doubt there were many noble port workers in Argentina taking barre classes but the historical claim is that they were central to the tango movement.

 

[Tango Distance]

I have suggested to multiple teachers to make the last lesson of the semester a mini-milonga -- they all say "That's a great idea!" and then don't do it. It would demystify it.

Several thoughts on the lesson-takers not transitioning to milonga-goers.

• The social aspect of a class is easy -- you rotate to the next person.
• I know of beginners who go to a milonga and get only 1 or even 0 dances. Classes seem like a much friendlier environment at that point!
• Skill mismatch is a worry. You don't worry in a class, you are nominally at the same level, or aware that experience class mate knows the class skill level. The true experts are at milongas... I'm going to bore them to tears... My experience was I found that 95% of the followers were Tango experts, that I could tell, when I started doing milongas. That number has steadily dropped through the years .
• Classes are usually open embrace -- I have heard complaints from those who went to a milonga about being pulled into close embraces they didn't want (My "Not Touchy Feely" thread details my travails with this.).
• Only doing classes is pretty common for many things (voice lessons, music lessons, Calculus).
• I found it to be a pretty hard transition, and it was mostly up to me, to transition from memorized figures to being spontaneous. One excellent lesson series I had would break up a figure into pieces, and tell us to do them in different orders and "Try to fool the follower!"

 

[JournalInTime]

Yet somehow past tango traditions did manage to tame human nature, thus their namesake.

Back to the foundational societal question of where and whether noble tastes matter more than popular energy. I doubt there were many noble port workers in Argentina taking barre classes but the historical claim is that they were central to the tango movement.

I really, truly get what you're saying, but . . . .

. . . I was very clear that I was talking about here and now, meaning our world of modern dance instruction in modern studios, social media and TV shows about dance, people working crazy-long hours with a one-hour commute at either end and little free time, the expectation of instant results engendered by the Internet, same-day delivery, and fast air travel, etc., where everything has been globalized and dance is far from its origin culture. Tango does not get to opt out of all that – neither the good nor the bad. No dance does . . . I happen to know something about belly dance, which is much older, and it doesn't get to opt out, despite traditionalists detesting what it is becoming. Art in general changes with the times, which often means that things that used to work stop working because of the way people think, talk, and act.

 

[opendoor]

..I doubt there were many noble port workers in Argentina taking barre classes but the historical claim is that they were central to the tango movement.

If you look at it objectively, they were really lousy dancers, or not dancers at all in today's sense. You're talking about the differences between folklore, legend and art!

 

[Gssh]

Tango does not get to opt out of all that – neither the good nor the bad. No dance does . . .

Nothing gets to opt out, but i think there is value in trying to talk about what the "art" is. Tango has stopped working a long time ago - there is no social dance anymore, there are just people pretending to do social dance. That doesn't really faze me - i did fencing and the likelihood that i get into a sword fight is lower than that there is tango dancing at a bar i hang out. But i think if we are preserving something we have to make a case of what we are preserving, and what we think is worthwhile about it.

 

[JournalInTime]

If you look at it objectively, they were really lousy dancers, or not dancers at all in today's sense. You're talking about the differences between folklore, legend and art!

That's exactly what I was getting at! Tango dancers today have easy access to dance competitions on TV and endless YouTube videos, and they see everything from guest demos at local milongas to headliners at major festivals. As a result, they know what's possible and they set their personal standards by that. We cannot and should not all dance like show dancers or professionals giving demos, but there's a huge zone between that and dancing by the seat of one's pants, and that's where most tango is right now. You can't stuff that genie back in the lamp . . .

 

[JournalInTime]

Nothing gets to opt out, but i think there is value in trying to talk about what the "art" is. Tango has stopped working a long time ago - there is no social dance anymore, there are just people pretending to do social dance. That doesn't really faze me - i did fencing and the likelihood that i get into a sword fight is lower than that there is tango dancing at a bar i hang out. But i think if we are preserving something we have to make a case of what we are preserving, and what we think is worthwhile about it.

All I can say is that we have social dance here: People have favorite places and people who go there, turn up to chat and be friendly and share their personal news, rotate through partners, and generally have a good time. Sure, there are a few pretentious weirdos and a few antisocial snobs, but they are on the edges of the good time and nobody cares. I'd think I could fairly say that social dance where I live is as much "social" as "dance" and as much "dance" as "social."

None of which has anything to do with skill level. A dance being social doesn't preclude members of the social group deciding that the social evening is more fun with better skills, just as a cocktail party isn't any less social if the host mainly invites educated people with interesting things to say so that the conversation is as engaging as or more engaging than the refreshments.

 

[opendoor]

..You can't stuff that genie back in the lamp . . .

But you can also recognize that tango continues to develop and evolves. And the future path of the tango was outlined when the guys of the guardia vieja suddenly took off their gaucho costumes and played in suits. Parents also have to recognize that their children will go their own way at some point. For me personally, however, it is important to keep an eye on the history and the path taken.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

At least other dances unlike Tango don’t pretend to be elitist. Tango people like to proclaim and present that they select partners based on dancing merit. That’s a lie.

Maybe that's one of the myths of tango. There's so much more to it than that and the reasons are both good and bad.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Almost all tango teachers claim to prepare their students for the milonga, which is actually not really the case.

None of my teachers ever made such a claim. In fact, they promised nothing.

 

[Bailango]

No, it's not the teacher's fault: it's the student's fault.
I can forgive any teacher for binding his students to them, recommending further courses, and staging the first milonga on the pista as a terrifying baptism of fire.

I only took group lessons for first dozen years. That too randomly. I never felt any of the instructors trying to bind the students. I have heard of it on here and it is possible some try to do that.

Most instructors since I started encourage students to go to milonga right away. Last weekend the instructors bought out university club tango students to a milonga. Some had been dancing less than a week.

I don’t mind students having a reality check that it is not going to be a cake walk.

L But the student has to free himself from this paternalism, if not rather let himself not be taken in by it.

I totally agree. Not only in Tango but in any field where one is student, I am of belief you need to take the agency of your own learning.

Almost all tango teachers claim to prepare their students for the milonga, which is actually not really the case.

Where I find fault with instructors is in not enlightening the students that at end of the day they have to take responsibility for their own learning and improvements. The instructors still have to teach them the right toolbox. It is upto student to sharpen the tools in that toolbox and then figure out how to use them. I am not forgiving of beginners. As a beginner you don’t know what you don’t know. If you decide to stick with and progress then it is upto you to discover right instructors and right pathways to be able to start dancing socially.

 

[Bailango]

I have suggested to multiple teachers to make the last lesson of the semester a mini-milonga -- they all say "That's a great idea!" and then don't do it. It would demystify it.

Why wait that long. I know more than one instructor taking the students out to real milonga after first couple or a few classes. The student may not be able to dance but they can soak in the milonga atmosphere. That is a part of learning too. Being in a group lessens anxiety and acts as security blanket. It is easier for beginner followers. Experienced leaders can invite them and dance down to their levels. Life is much tougher for a beginner leaders. They will only dance with the girls within the group. When you are a beginner leaders not only is it intimidating to ask a random lady, you also don’t know yet how to lead.

I known at least three or four or more local instructors who have taken students from their group class to a milonga over all these years. That makes me believe it is not an exception.

• Classes are usually open embrace -- I have heard complaints from those who went to a milonga about being pulled into close embraces they didn't want (My "Not Touchy Feely" thread details my travails with this.).

Another point of departure. We have a lot of different milongas that are spread out. Many different instructors teaching around the metro areas. I can’t say about beginner leaders. It is rare to find a beginner follower unwilling to dance in close embrace. The classes will try to use open embrace to introduce a concept but also make students dance in close embrace. I think it is safe to say over 80% of the pista at any milonga dances in close embrace. Beyond local milongas at the visiting milongas too I think most people are dancing in close embrace. All ages. All levels.

• Only doing classes is pretty common for many things (voice lessons, music lessons, Calculus).

Not in social dancing. May be I have been social dancing for too long that I don’t know people who do classes without social fancing.

 

[Rabbit]

Nothing gets to opt out, but i think there is value in trying to talk about what the "art" is. Tango has stopped working a long time ago - there is no social dance anymore, there are just people pretending to do social dance.

I actually disagree on that point, social dance exists if you can go to an event and dance with different people, even if the quality of dancing might be low according to whatever standards we choose to apply.

As far as the artistic side goes, I think all the ideas of the 2010s are dead ends. I currently find tango quite unwatchable in general. If we want to create art it is necessary to discard everything we think we know and start afresh.

 

[Tango Distance]

This implies to me that a typical beginner's class near you has a high rate of people who then do milongas. What are your area's good practices for that?

I don’t know people who do classes without social dancing.

 

[tangoing]

As an alternative, I can only present my own tango path: it began on the pista and finally led into the artificial world of the tango studio after one year. Anyone willing can learn social tango just by doing. At first I only danced socially and all experienced followers confirmed that I was a good tango dancer. Learning tango is possible without a teacher (but not without the friendly coaching of experienced followers on and off the floor). Only those who learn at the milonga are truly sensitized and will dance much better than the average dancer who fills the milonga.

Sounds like you had an extremely welcoming community, which unfortunately is not the norm. A beginner lead is not going to get many dances unless he is overly charismatic/friendly or if it’s a very small community where everyone literally knows everyone else.
Practicas are better for learning for beginner leads.