Leading with your top
- Thread starter Egoist
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fascination
Site Moderator
not an expert... could be good or bad depending upon what they mean...but often beginners will lead with their feet and a weak frame so the follow has no idea what is happening...when one leads with good frame from the top , one is more easily followed (could this be it?) ...also if one is leaning forward too much and trying to lead by leaning forward and pushing w/arms that could be bad...depends upon the context...am sure the experts will chime in soon
RhumbaWaltz
New Member
I've heard from my instructor that I'm "leading with my top" when I am slightly off-balance and leaning too far forward (even though I'm the follower).
fascination
Site Moderator
we obviously need more info...
Chris Stratton
New Member
yes, this could easily be interepreted either as leading as in communicating (leading a heel turn) or as leading in terms of body position (left side leading)... and that's just for the *good* possibilities.
JoepiE
New Member
I think leading with your top can be (as said) wrong and good. Leading with your arms (frame) ONLY is generally a no-no (alltough you could use it sometimes), leading with your upperbody is a must.
Allmost everything in Competitive International Standard dancing is lead with the upperbody, NOT alone the upperbody, I'm not saying that, but without upperbody lead it's not possible to achieve a reasonable quality in dancing.
It's impossible to lead any sway without using your upperbody. It's true sway is created by bending your knees, but from there on your entire body makes a curve, communicating "sway" to the lady standing against you.
Even more than in sway, upperbody leading is used in Shapings offcourse (most lines, TOAS, SFL/RFL) and for instance figures like Wind-up. In these figures you put something extra on your base (your lowerbody) making shapes (not only Shapings) with your upperbody.
Even take a promenade position for instance, try to (gently!!) lead your lady out of it without moving your upperbody. Your frame will break lose from your ribcage, you'll get an awefull right shoulder just under your right ear!
It's not about moving your frame! Eventhough your frame will move as an whole with the movement of your sides and ribcage. By stretching one side (not chrunching the other!!) or rotation your ribcage (without pushing it forward!!) you'll achieve upperbody lead.
This is something you can train together. Ask your lady what she needs of you to really feel what you're expecting her to do. Doing this, as the leading man, always try to make you're lady's life as easy as possible! Give her all the space you can and make sure every single movement is (innitially) to please her. If your lady smiles while your training this you're doing it right! Believe me I know it's true. I've told this to some copples I teach and they all said their dancing became much easier, lighter, more in harmony.
To give an example of the things I told check out the Standard Champ 5-dance final on http://ballroom.mit.edu/comp/2005videos.html. Look especially at couple 145, Chockuba-Sztiech. See how he moves his upperbody (especially between 0:00:25 and 0:00:30 and in the Viennese Waltz, but not in Slow Foxtrot). Then pause at 0:01:07, Look at that horrible right shoulder!! That's one of the reasons you should lead with your upperbody, resulting in making lot's of space in your dancehold and creating a big-knat top!!
Allmost everything in Competitive International Standard dancing is lead with the upperbody, NOT alone the upperbody, I'm not saying that, but without upperbody lead it's not possible to achieve a reasonable quality in dancing.
It's impossible to lead any sway without using your upperbody. It's true sway is created by bending your knees, but from there on your entire body makes a curve, communicating "sway" to the lady standing against you.
Even more than in sway, upperbody leading is used in Shapings offcourse (most lines, TOAS, SFL/RFL) and for instance figures like Wind-up. In these figures you put something extra on your base (your lowerbody) making shapes (not only Shapings) with your upperbody.
Even take a promenade position for instance, try to (gently!!) lead your lady out of it without moving your upperbody. Your frame will break lose from your ribcage, you'll get an awefull right shoulder just under your right ear!
It's not about moving your frame! Eventhough your frame will move as an whole with the movement of your sides and ribcage. By stretching one side (not chrunching the other!!) or rotation your ribcage (without pushing it forward!!) you'll achieve upperbody lead.
This is something you can train together. Ask your lady what she needs of you to really feel what you're expecting her to do. Doing this, as the leading man, always try to make you're lady's life as easy as possible! Give her all the space you can and make sure every single movement is (innitially) to please her. If your lady smiles while your training this you're doing it right! Believe me I know it's true. I've told this to some copples I teach and they all said their dancing became much easier, lighter, more in harmony.
To give an example of the things I told check out the Standard Champ 5-dance final on http://ballroom.mit.edu/comp/2005videos.html. Look especially at couple 145, Chockuba-Sztiech. See how he moves his upperbody (especially between 0:00:25 and 0:00:30 and in the Viennese Waltz, but not in Slow Foxtrot). Then pause at 0:01:07, Look at that horrible right shoulder!! That's one of the reasons you should lead with your upperbody, resulting in making lot's of space in your dancehold and creating a big-knat top!!
Chris Stratton
New Member
Actually the gentleman in the reverse turning promenade entry at 1:07 needed to let his upper body lag in the rotation, so that it would match his partner rather than letting his entire left side up to the shoulder fall open.
I've observed that more "italian" style dancers/instructors emphasize leading with the top, and what we've been recently working on(as opposed to old brittish style with heavy emphasis on feet). The primary thing that we've been doing is: 1) stretch elbows out as far as possible(but slightly forward), and 2) keeping elbows up. In fact, the elbows are so up, I feel like they over my head. But it looks level and fine. The key is to keep everything else relaxed.
As for "leading", it's an awareness of shoulder twisting in relations to hips. In reverse figures, for example, the shoulder/hips are more twisted towards the lady. It "feels" like a top leading because my elbows are so up, but I think it results in the same thing... which is what, I'm not sure.
As for "leading", it's an awareness of shoulder twisting in relations to hips. In reverse figures, for example, the shoulder/hips are more twisted towards the lady. It "feels" like a top leading because my elbows are so up, but I think it results in the same thing... which is what, I'm not sure.