Learning to lead as a woman

[icequeen]

How does one learn to lead? I'm a woman, and I don't mean that I want to back-lead: I want to learn the lead technique and steps to gain perspective and to lead other people when necessary. But I might be missing a component in my brain that allows me to do the "opposite" and corresponding steps! How have other women figured out how to do this?

 

[FatBaldGuy60]

All my female instructors seem to be able to lead without a problem. I think it is just a process of doing it often enough. One thing I will say as a new dancer; it is not easy. I must not be clear enough on my lead yet, because at times my wife will do what she thinks we are going to do, instead of what I am doing or about to do.

Good luck with it.

FBG

 

[DancinAnne]

How does one learn to lead? I'm a woman, and I don't mean that I want to back-lead: I want to learn the lead technique and steps to gain perspective and to lead other people when necessary. But I might be missing a component in my brain that allows me to do the "opposite" and corresponding steps! How have other women figured out how to do this?

I am a follower, but I like to lead... I practice and learn leading techniques in workshops and group classes. I also lead at local dance parties on occasion. Additionally, my DH likes to follow, as it gives him better perspective on his leading, and since he teaches, it makes him a better instructor too, so I get to practice on him a lot!

 

[skwiggy]

Trial and error. Practice. Take a group class as a leader. Find a lady who doesn't have a partner to practice on... she'll likely be more than happy to have someone to dance with. Lead ladies at social dances.

 

[standardgirl]

ask Kitty, she is especially good at leading and better than the average guys you would dance with ask clubs or parties.

 

[Zhena]

I have been taking the lead role in most of my group classes for several months, so I have a little experience (but I'm not an expert).

Leading uses the same components of your brain -- they're not missing. But you have to use them differently. Leading is not just doing the same dance "backwards." It is almost a different dance, so you can't count on your knowledge of the follower's role. You have to start from the very beginning again. You have probably heard about the different learning curves for leaders and followers: the curve for leaders is very flat at the beginning and gets steeper later, while the curve for followers is steep at the beginning and flattens out later. Your experience as a follower does NOT change the shape of the learning curve. If it is taking you longer to catch on to the leader's part than when you learned the follower's part, it's not because YOU are slow, it's because it takes longer for everyone.

One of the hardest parts for me was transitioning back to thinking ahead, when I had put so much effort into learning to be responsive. But the absolute worst part is that I have a harder time hearing the music than when I am following. It's completely bizarre, but I have to listen harder when I'm in charge of keeping the beat.

And ... what everyone else said. You have to practice, and then practice, and practice some more. But if your studio is anything like mine, there are always plenty of followers willing to dance with you at parties -- no one has ever said no when I asked them to dance, even though they know my skills are extremely limited.

 

[quixotedlm]

it's easy. all women are already born with the "i'm in control" gene. you just have to let it do it's thing

 

[skwiggy]

...there are always plenty of followers willing to dance with you at parties -- no one has ever said no when I asked them to dance, even though they know my skills are extremely limited.

Absolutely. And they are always very forgiving of mistakes, and incredibly impressed when you can do even the simplest things right. Their standard is much lower for what they expect from a female leader than from a male leader.

 

[Joe]

You have probably heard about the different learning curves for leaders and followers: the curve for leaders is very flat at the beginning and gets steeper later, while the curve for followers is steep at the beginning and flattens out later. Your experience as a follower does NOT change the shape of the learning curve.

I disagree. The learning curve for leaders is steep from the get-go and flattens out (I haven't decided about the learning curve for followers). It's just the way that most people are trained to dance, at least those who start from zero together. The guys (leaders) are learning steps, not how to lead. The girls (followers) are learning the same steps, not how to follow. So initially, they're doing the right steps together, and learning to lead them (with a lead the girls can learn to follow) comes later.

 

[quixotedlm]

Joe's right. The curve is much steeper for leads at the start. Followers' learning curve is not flat, but not very steep.

 

[Zhena]

I disagree. The learning curve for leaders is steep from the get-go and flattens out (I haven't decided about the learning curve for followers). It's just the way that most people are trained to dance, at least those who start from zero together. The guys (leaders) are learning steps, not how to lead. The girls (followers) are learning the same steps, not how to follow. So initially, they're doing the right steps together, and learning to lead them (with a lead the girls can learn to follow) comes later.

What I mean by a learning curve is a scale with time/effort on the x-axis and progress on the y-axis. At the beginning a leader works hard for very little perceptible progress, while a follower seems to move faster. In particular, a follower can do more steps with a better leader, but a leader can lead only what he/she already knows, even with an excellent follower.

Once the leader has a good foundation, adding new stuff seems to come easier. The follower seems to get more visible stuff at the beginning, but then they find out there is more to it than they expected, and they have to work harder on the finer (but critical) points if they want to get better.

 

[quixotedlm]

What I mean by a learning curve is a scale with time/effort on the x-axis and progress on the y-axis. At the beginning a leader works hard for very little perceptible progress, while a follower seems to move faster. In particular, a follower can do more steps with a better leader, but a leader can lead only what he/she already knows, even with an excellent follower.

Once the leader has a good foundation, adding new stuff seems to come easier. The follower seems to get more visible stuff at the beginning, but then they find out there is more to it than they expected, and they have to work harder on the finer (but critical) points if they want to get better.

You are both saying the same thing, but zhena, you are using the learning-curve-vocabulary incorrectly.

Your description of a leads progress rate fits what is typically described as a 'steep learning curve'.

 

[Me]

I am still struggling to learn what I can about ballroom, so my perspective is an Argentine Tango one.

I noticed an immediate improvement in my dancing as a follow when I had an idea of where the man was spatially, his weight placement, etc. I still have a long way to go toward completely understand the ‘other half’ of the dance, but just understanding the basic concepts really broadened my perspective as a dancer.

I do believe that, once the lead begins to learn the follow (and vice versa) the student has to take care to not begin correcting every person he/she dances with.

One annoying thing... every tried to lead in heels? Ugh! It's so hard to not go falling forward onto my partner. These things were definitely made for walking backwards!

 

[Zhena]

You are both saying the same thing, but zhena, you are using the learning-curve-vocabulary incorrectly.

Your description of a leads progress rate fits what is typically described as a 'steep learning curve'.

From Wikipedia:

In the immediate context of learning, the expression "steep learning curve" is seen to be used in two opposite meanings. Originally it referred to the quick progress in learning during the initial stages followed by gradually lesser improvements with further practice.[1] The progress may be measured in different ways, e.g., prediction/recognition accuracy vs. the number of training samples[2]. Over time, the misapprehension has emerged that a "steep" learning curve means that something requires much effort to learn, leading to disagreements even among learned people[3], because of the natural association of the word "steep" with a slope which is difficult to climb.

 

[quixotedlm]

From Wikipedia:

In the immediate context of learning, the expression "steep learning curve" is seen to be used in two opposite meanings. Originally it referred to the quick progress in learning during the initial stages followed by gradually lesser improvements with further practice.[1] The progress may be measured in different ways, e.g., prediction/recognition accuracy vs. the number of training samples[2]. Over time, the misapprehension has emerged that a "steep" learning curve means that something requires much effort to learn, leading to disagreements even among learned people[3], because of the natural association of the word "steep" with a slope which is difficult to climb.

thanks! i learned something here. clearly, my notion of using the phrase was wrong.