bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
i think its down to his leading....
Like it or Lead it
- Thread starter opendoor
- Start date
i think its down to his leading....
Yes.. they are close together, and his right leg is slightly outside of her left leg, which amplifies her turnout. She also has her upper body in a V position as she is reaching with her right leg, which makes her turn out her right leg too. If you watch it slowly, it's awkward as she's reaching. (she starts her reach in a 1st position plie)
I think the move would have been prettier if either one of those conditions had been changed. If she had been flat on to him as she reached, she could have kept her right knee towards him rather than pointing to the side. If her left foot had been outside his or more directly in front, she wouldn't have needed to turn out her left leg quite so much to bend. Since they show the dance from this angle, I can only assume, they did all this deliberately and WANT the move to look exactly that way.
However, having said all that, I don't particularly like the volcada that follows the move either. After I watched it a few times, I realized that I don't like the way her free leg looks on several moves. It's a real trick to master having energy without tension or stiffness. Ballet dancers manage to have energy in their body and still move like a willow (except when staccato is called for) I haven't mastered it at all, but then I'm not putting up professional looking videos of myself on YOUTube. Her free leg looks (to me) tense rather than energized in some of these moves.
The fact that her legs are very thin makes it harder to achieve the look I am talking about, but it isn't just a LOOK. In the volcada, her use of the leg is rather jerky for what the music and the leader are doing. She seems to be a sharp, snappy dancer and the closeups of her fast footwork are nice, but there's definitely a quality missing in what should be smoother movements, and the opening move is just one example.
The entire dance seems to me to be all wrong for the music, and missing a slow and gentle feel, especially in the beginning when it would make sense with the story as well as the music. It could get more sharp and intensely paced towards the end. For a brief time right after the hug (around the 2 minute mark) it takes on a quality that matches the music and cinematography, but overall, it's just... off. (for me) I liked the dance better when I first had to watch with the sound off. When I turned on the sound, I thought.. Huh?
Loved the cinematography, especially with the music. Hated almost everything else, including the dress. (loved the cut and drape of it, but hated the bold black and yellow striping, except when it was shown closeup rippling)
Yeah... this video won't be going in my faves.
LadyLeader
Forum Master
When I looked her feet /leg position compared to his - to me it looks they are working in the same way, advancing in the same way, even if she seems to be late when straightening her left leg compared to him.
These bending knees are ugly but it was used as follower nuevo-decoration in the midle of 2000. At that time her both knees were bend and feet fixed but the body was moving ocho-like to and fro.
Such a fresh video, place and story. Thanks!
opendoor
Forum Master
Remember? border used to call that a Buttleo..
..Horacio Godoy invented a new movement similar to the "Fouette"...
In the abscence of any correct terminology I am calling it the Butt-leo. cant say I like it but I know some ladies who will adore itany excuse to wiggle.
Subliminal
Well-Known Member
Not a fan of their execution. There is nothing wrong with a long slow sidestep for effect if there is space for it. They seem out of sync though. I see what ukdancer is saying, and I think I agree that is part of it. I blame the leader; pushing off the standing leg the way he is doing creates dissonance in the embrace and connection. He should also be leading the movement then following where she goes. He seems to be paying more attention to his own styling.
A MUCH wider step?
That seemed pretty darn wide to me. I also don't agree that her step could be wider by keeping her supporting leg straight. That's totally backwards. The closer to the floor you get your butt, the farther along the floor you can reach with the free foot. You get the most reach with the free foot along the floor when you are sitting on the floor.. can't go any farther than the length of your leg (until you start a weight transfer, but even with a weight transfer, how many people typically take a step that is longer than their leg length?)
The fact that the bending knee is turned out is irrelevant. Her body did not go to her left side (ie; past her center) only her knee. If I stand on one bent leg and reach with the other along the floor, my reach is not affected by the amount of turnout in my standing leg.
From what I see, one thing that affected the way the whole thing looked stemmed from her upper body position. Not only is she turning out both knees (so that even when adorning behind herself prior to the step, her knees aren't together) but her upper body is visibly tilted to her right (ie: her left shoulder is higher than her right shoulder). It's hard to know whether the V-embrace is the cause or effect of the right leg turnout, but the tilting is definitely indicative of a fundamental problem. The combination of all 3 (V-embrace, ballet turnout, and tilt to the shoulders) is probably all contributing to an awkward look.
HA.. after you posted, I watched again and paid more attention to him during this move.. He actually pushed farther he could reach himself! Did you see how he "walked" his trailing foot across the floor a smidge because he couldn't pick it up because he had reached/pushed too far to transfer his weight with his feet so far apart? THat's how it looked to me, anyway.
bastet
Active Member
I did go back and see that.
I also agree the movement didn't really fit the music either. I also remind myself they appear to have been dancing on stone or concrete, which sucks bigtime and probably didn't help with some of the things y'all are talking about (stiff legs, bad turnout, etc....)
I don't see anything inherently wrong with a large or dramatic side step when space is available, and well, there's nothing like having video you can stop or run in slow mo to pick apart to see where the flaws are. Dance is a thing in motion, and so if a person were watching it live, you'd probably either not notice, or not so much. It's mostly because we can stop, repeat or slow motion that we can pick apart the technical details of something that was over in less than 2 seconds.
That volcada on the other hand, that was pretty clear without stopping the vid....
Yes.
What are we doing now, dissecting a single step of some else's dance? Maybe we should dissect our own dance as thoroughly.
Believe me, I do!
It IS the topic of the thread, after all... that move specifically and what we think if it. I suppose we could have all just clicked a response on the poll and left it at that, but that wouldn't be a discussion forum would it?
I'd be happy to give a complete rundown of everything that I think is wrong with my own dancing, but I'm afraid it would be too long for anyone to want to read.
LadyLeader
Forum Master
This kind of analysis has been important for me to find the different details to look at when analysing my own dance.
(It is hard: after waching my first video I didn't train for four days - no dance future for this body!)
Personally, I don't think someone dances with almost ballet-like turnout simply because of a difficult floor. It's hardly a common "default" way of moving that most people would resort to when conditions are difficult. Tension in the body and legs, maybe, but atypical turnout? Not so much. It would have to be a normal way of using the legs for that person. (and she moved quite well in her faster and pivoting moves)
I also don't find anything wrong with a large step (floorcraft issues aside)
However, I only needed to replay the video in slo-mo to figure out WHY it seemed to be awkward.. It LOOKED awkward to me at regular speed on the very first viewing.. (as did the volcada). And that was without sound to be criticizing the choreographic choices with the music.
If I pick things apart, it's because I like to analyze the body mechanics of what is going on when things work or don't work. It gives me things to think about in my own dancing, and has also been appreciated by people I've taught or danced with in practice. I think my ability to see things like that are one of my strengths as a learning dancer and as an occasional teacher/coach. It's not meant to be catty or harsh, and when I do it in person NO ONE has ever taken as such.
Some people do well with "Imagine your foot encased in sand and the concrete slowly hardens as you have to draw out of it to shift, blah, blah, you're a lion stalking on the tundra, blah"
I do better with "Your shoulders are uneven and you're tipped to one side throwing your whole axis off... now let's figure out if that's a cause or a result of something else"
(Maybe it's because that's how my skating coach was... after all, you can't "method act" your way through a spin or jump.. your body has to be in the right place or all the emoting in the world won't help)
Oh I KNOW! It's so humbling to see yourself on video the first time... Or the 2nd or 3rd. It's really time for me to do a video again for learning purposes, and I'm scared.
Dave Bailey
Active Member
Apparently.
Peaches
Well-Known Member
Er...but you don't take a step in AT by keeping your standing leg straight. If the guy is taking a step that big, and lowering slightly in the process, she's got to bend to stay with him. And there is nowhere else for her knee to go.
Why the uproar over this. It's a step, plain and simple. A large one, yes, but still just a step. You flex your standing knee in order to do it. Larger step, more lowering, more flexing. This is not rocket science...nor should it be controversial.