Managing Multiple Students at same Level, Age

[RiseNFall]

I whined about this before, but I think I could use some constructive input.

Pro now has three students dancing Silver in the same NDCA age group. Moreover, two of us are the same age category for FADS competitions. My solution for FADS was that I was going to ask Pro about dropping down one age level, but the third student is in that age group. I had a tad bit of a melt down when I saw that the third student had started silver, so that dancing down an age group is not going to work soon.

My issues are first that I would have appreciated Pro taking the initiative and explaining to me how this was going to work. Yes, I should have asked when it first became an issue, but I did not. Unfortunately, it all feeds into my rampant insecurities, as did several other small issues. I'm trying to fix all of it now.

Next, I would like to know how it's going to work if two of us want to do the same competition, and there are two that could potentially be in high demand. One of them is Manhattan Dance Championships--it is the local competition of that level and therefore more affordable. I personally cannot afford to go to Emerald, OSB, etc. One of the other students can. The third I don't think cares.

My task is to somehow disengage my insecurities from all of this. Do I have a "right" to ask to do Manhattan Dance Championships when I don't do the other large competitions? Does/should my asking to do it have any connection to my dancing--i.e., should it go to the student who is going to do better? I have to get to where I'm not using this to further mess with my own head. One, it doesn't feel good. Two, it seriously effects my dancing.

Any suggestions for dealing with my own demons or talking to Pro??? In all honesty, adjusting my own head space is what is most important. Enough small things have happened that I have to develop my own belief is myself and not rely on Pro to provide that.

Thank you!

 

[scullystwin42]

Well, I can speak for the FADS comps - does your pro not do first come, first serve? My previous pro had several students at the same level and age, and it ended up being whoever booked the FADS comp first. Would that help remove the insecurities in your head? It was really the only way they felt to be fair. I agreed on that.

For the other, you have absolutely the right to ask to do the other competitions if you want to do them. You always have the right, no matter what you think your performance is in comparison to other students. But I'm not sure if that response helps your headspace...

 

[raindance]

A couple of ideas for you. Figure some things out for yourself first.

1) Figure out what you would like to do for upcoming competitions (which ones, what is your budget, how many heats, styles, scholarships, etc) if you were not worrying about this issue at all. Ignoring the other students, but considering your own wishes, budget, etc - what would you like to do? This is plan A.

2) Continuing to mentally ignore the other students for the moment, what would be your plan B (and maybe plan C, plan D if appropriate)? If your pro is not available for some or all of what your first choice(s) would be, what other comps/options would you consider?

Next, consider talking calmly to your pro about your plans for upcoming competitions.

Let him know what your plan A would be. Ask him if it is possible for you to do the competitions/heats/etc you would like given his other commitments. (His other commitments include but are not limited to the other students - his travel schedule, other obligations to the studio, family, etc.) If appropriate, let him know your limitations and priorities - e.g. you'd like to do one major comp (such as Manhattan), but are unable to travel as far as OSB, or whatever your parameters may be.

Consider also asking him in general how he plans to juggle multiple students in the same age group and styles. At the moment there are three of you - but that could change. One of those students could move on, other students could come along, etc. So ask in general what his plan and procedures are, so that you are aware of how he will make decisions.

I would suggest trying not to make it about your dance abilities at all, at least from your own end. You are a paying client. You are looking to buy a certain set of services. You want to know if he is able to provide those services (or some reasonable compromise that you would still be happy with - see plan B, C, etc, and discuss if needed).

(You can work on insecurities about your dance abilities in your lessons and practice times. That's where you work on improving your dance skills. You should feel confident that your pro is helping you work towards reaching your potential. If needed, spend some other time on journaling, visualization, reading books on competitive mindsets, or other techniques to work on the mental side of your insecurities.)

If your pro can't/won't take you to the comps you want to go to, either for plan A or an acceptable plan B, then you can consider your other options. Are there other pros at the same studio you would be excited to dance with for some of the events your pro may not be available for? Are there other events (showcases, etc) you'd be happy doing in place of competitions for a little while? Or is it time to look for a different pro that can accommodate the comps you would like to attend?

Good luck with it. Let us know how it goes.

 

[FancyFeet]

I'd just flat out ask how he plans to handle it. Not in any sort of accusatory way, more of a "hey, so I noticed this is happening, and I'm just trying to plan my year/set my goals/budget, and I'm wondering what it means." Even if he hasn't thought about it yet, this will get it into his head in advance of the forms-are-due panic that can lead to rash decisions.

Personally, I hand pro my desired competitions for the next year in Dec. He tends to use them to plan his year, and makes sure they work. Sometimes I coord with his other 2 more serious pro-am ladies, because we like to keep costs reasonable by attending the same comps.

On the odd occasion where I decided to do latin and he has other students at my age/level, I danced open, one danced closed, and one moved up a level in open. I was the wrench in their typical arrangement as I don't usually compete that style, but it all worked out well.

 

[Purr]

I'd ask pro how he plans to handle it. The other posters have good suggestions as well.

I have no idea how FADS competitions work, but in NDCA competitions there are usually several levels of silver. Usually there is also the option of dancing down an age category. Surely between the everyone could get at least one or two sets of dances in.

 

[Mengu]

NDCA comps should be easy, even with 3 in the same age and level... Youngest dancer dances down an age category, and most experienced dancer dances up a syllabus notch... So one person would dance pre-silver and intermediate silver, the other would dance full silver and pre-gold (or open silver). Another possibility is for one person (the one who just moved to silver) to dance open bronze and pre-silver. For multi-dances, you alternate comps, flip flop age categories, or levels, etc. Just talk to your pro, unless you want to dance gazillion rounds, your pro should be able to figure out a way to divide his time and give everyone one or two rounds of dancing. No reason to fret over asking these questions, pros have to deal with this all the time, it's part of their business.

No idea about FADs.

 

[RiseNFall]

I called the studio and talked to the co-owner to see if there was a time the three of us could potentially talk about it--her presence helps with some conversations. We may not all be available at the same time for a few days, but I told her what the issues were for me. My emphasis was on wanting to know how it's going to be handled. And I acknowledged that it made me feel like a grabby b*tch that I wasn't happy just going "la, la, la, whatever you want me to do or not do is fine."

We had already discussed what NDCA comps I want to do this year, but, TBH, I have no idea if he remembers it. In the past, it didn't really matter whether he did or not.

@scullystwin42, first come first served wouldn't really work for the FADS (or NDCA) comps. It's more that he looks at who has committed by a certain time and figures out where to put whom. The individual dances aren't such an issue, given the range of age groups and categories available, it's the Championships. At NDCA comps, there's at least sometimes both Championships and Scholarships available.

@raindance, I'm trying to wrap my head around alternatives. It's not any more fair for me to pitch a fit over Manhattan than it is for anybody else to. The combination of competitiveness and affordability is unbeatable because of its proximity to the studio and the fact that he usually has a fair number of students going. Thank you for the encouragement to be an adult about this, however, and to come up with acceptable alternatives.

Most of the students don't seem to be as willing to plan as far ahead as I am, so that contributes to the difficulty of figuring out what I can afford in terms of NDCA comps--hard to know in advance how many students one is splitting the cost with.

Thank you, everyone. Knew you all would be rational about it.

 

[Jeravae]

I'm personally very surprise that you are the one who has to worry about this. Let your pro and the studio work that stuff out. That's why you're paying them. You should be able to go to every competition you want to go to and not have to worry about how they are going to work it out. If they need to switch things around, let them come to you and make sure you're OK with it.

 

[singndance]

I was in a similar situation with a FADS pro and several ladies at the studio who were the same age and same level. I talked to the other ladies to find out what comps they were planning, and told them my wish list. We usually were able to work it out amongst ourselves so there was no overlap. For the FADS comps were the age groups were very broad, one of us would do the Championship, and the other the Scholarship. Or, one of us would dance up a level, i.e., we would do silver steps in the Open Scholarship. I don't know if you have that kind of relationship with the others in your studio, but that worked for me. I have heard that FADS added more age groups, which may help.

When there was a competition that I really wanted to do, like you want to do Manhattan, I made that known well in advance, as you are doing. That happened once, and he put me down for that comp, and steered a similar student to another comp. He always had a way of working things out. Good luck. Sounds like getting the owner involved with help. But like Mengu said, they have to deal with this kind of thing a lot. You aren't the first one in this position, and won't be the last, for sure.

 

[Mr 4 styles]

You won't want to hear this..... you should book your events now for the year with a firm commitment you can't worry about the nickels and dimes of splitting with other students etc budget for max cost and it will be a bonus if it goes down . personally I'd get what I wanted or I'd look elsewhere. it's a business and I'm the client . I personally don't have the time and energy to fret this stuff so if for some reason I had to switch I'd consider it. that being said I only pick independent teachers for this reason and you can assess their student "stable" in advance

 

[danceronice]

You should be able to go to every competition you want to go to and not have to worry about how they are going to work it out. If they need to switch things around, let them come to you and make sure you're OK with it.

So how do they decide when the student isn't okay with it, but what they would be okay with isn't possible without making it not okay for someone else? NDCA competitions do what they can to create in-between single heats for each age group (Pre-Silver, Silver I, Silver II, Open Silver, Pre-Gold, etc) so that pros can accommodate as many students as possible but when it comes to things like scholarships and championships options are limited. Sometimes there just isn't a way to allow for everyone to do everything they want. If a student doesn't express as soon as possible that a particular comp is important to them and they want to do X events, a pro and studio can't know how to prioritize. I don't think the OP should feel GUILTY about it, but I think coming with a plan and asking how it can be accommodated is more than reasonable.

 

[s2k]

Next, I would like to know how it's going to work if two of us want to do the same competition, and there are two that could potentially be in high demand.

Do I have a "right" to ask to do Manhattan Dance Championships when I don't do the other large competitions? Does/should my asking to do it have any connection to my dancing--i.e., should it go to the student who is going to do better? !

1. Bold is mine: are you working yourself up about something that's not even fact yet? You want a plan for something that may not even ever be an issue. And as another poster suggested, this isn't even something you need to worry about - this is something the studio ought to handle. I appreciate you note your own headspace, but trust me: if your pro is accruing a "stable", going with the flow, being organized, and speaking up and clearly for your needs will all serve you well. So good for you for wanting a plan, but don't court anxiety if you don't need to.

2. Manhattan is at the end of June, right? You want to dance what you want to dance, give your pro $500 as a down payment on holding his availability on those dates, and for the level and category you want to dance in. I danced in quite the stable once, and my pro went with whoever gave him the cash first. "FCFS" is really the only way to operate, as how many people have we all seen say they're going to do a comp and then back out - for whatever reason.

3. If you give your pro enough time to consult his schedule and you give him a down payment to let him know you're serious, any comp ought to be "fair game." You're the consumer, as others have already pointed out.

4. "Should it go to the student who is going to do better?" No one would ever compete. None of us would ever be "good enough."

 

[Dance Redeemer]

This discussion is really timely for me and very helpful. I have competed very little, and I haven't worried at all about my Pro's other students. I assumed my schedule would be okay -- and I was wrong. I am one of my Pro's 2 students competing in International and the only one who competes in Latin. I am in a completely different age division and level from his other Standard dancer. How could there be a problem? Well, the American style students picked different (out of town) competitions than those I'm interested in, and there was a conflict. Totally my fault for not being clearer earlier on this, and understanding the schedule. (Also, my Pro said it didn't matter - he wasn't taking me to any competition, I'm not ready to compete at the level I want/expect to.) I appreciate the tips and suggestions above for making my voice heard and planning ahead. It will definitely help me know what is coming up, what to work toward, and what to expect and now is a good time for me to plan out the upcoming year.

And maybe I'll see you at Manhattan

 

[rels77]

Ive had a woman who was in my age and level often and it always worked out like this.

Singles: depends on how many rounds you want to do. We were a2. And we both wanted three rounds. So one of us did a2 pre bronze and full and A1 int bronze and the other did the opposite.

Multis- the younger one did a and I did b. The think once we switched. And one time one did the champ and I did the scholarship. Or one person could take the chance and dance up a level.

Lots of options. It happens all the time.

 

[RiseNFall]

Thank you for all of the input! I'm meeting with them tomorrow. "Talking" about it has helped. I just went back and read my original post. I'm completely over what had been one of my issues (wanting to complain about him not proactively explaining how this was going to work ). I'm largely over the issue of do I somehow deserve to ask for what I want. I'm still working on being adult enough to accept compromise on Manhattan. At least some years.

In this particular region, FADS does not have both championships and scholarships. I'm perfectly willing to dance down an age level until the other student in my FADS age category is ready to move up out of Silver, but that only works if the third student is willing to dance down an age level as well. I will certainly wait to worry about that until it's a reality. I am telling Pro that for the most part, I will want to be able to do a Championship or Scholarship at any competition I go to. If need be, the exception will be for the "in our back yard" FADS competition. One of the reasons it's fun is that a large percentage of the students in the studio compete and he's going to have trouble this year accommodating everybody's single entries, let alone Championships.