No.. that's what I was taught too.
Milonga and Vals fundamentals
- Thread starter Dave Bailey
- Start date
No.. that's what I was taught too.
quixotedlm
Active Member
(newbie here - if anything below is egregiously bad, i'd love to be corrected)
i've been thinking about the role of cadencia in general, and it seems to be a very valuable way of thinking/feeling/dancing in general, and esp for milonga. as much as i hear about leading with the body, it seems to me that from a teaching standpoint, it would possible to show concrete examples of how cadencia makes leading/following easier in certain cases. I think it might offer the student a good starting point, and kinesthetic illustration, for thinking about eliminating abrupt moments in general, and milonga in particular.
traspie - this seems to be defined variously. for some, it's cutting a beat and double time stepping in certain ways, for others it's a 'slip' or 'fall' type movement... introducing the student to the idea that there is more than one stylistic variation of 'traspie', and that they all don't have to look like a fake-step-slide-step is perhaps good idea.
habanero rhythm, and how to step in simple ways to this rhythm.
conveying the idea that learning and practicing milonga 'later' might not work out so well - that sometimes dancers get better at tango and continue to be unppracticed at milonga (due to easily explainable reasons - it's danced and played less, so fewer opportunities), and when one is already good at tango, embracing the clumsiness of being not-so-good in milonga is unappetizing - and you fall into a vicious cycle of not practicing milonga. solution is to suck it up and find ways to practice milonga from the get go
an introduction to the general idea that one doesn't have to dance milonga in complex looking ways, and that it feels good to start out with simple dancing that's musical (it applies to tango and vals too, but i think it's much easier to fall into the trappings of trying too hard with milonga).
some discussion of how to employ momentary pauses in milonga in appropriate ways that doesn't result in the feeling of being stalled.
i've been thinking about the role of cadencia in general, and it seems to be a very valuable way of thinking/feeling/dancing in general, and esp for milonga. as much as i hear about leading with the body, it seems to me that from a teaching standpoint, it would possible to show concrete examples of how cadencia makes leading/following easier in certain cases. I think it might offer the student a good starting point, and kinesthetic illustration, for thinking about eliminating abrupt moments in general, and milonga in particular.
traspie - this seems to be defined variously. for some, it's cutting a beat and double time stepping in certain ways, for others it's a 'slip' or 'fall' type movement... introducing the student to the idea that there is more than one stylistic variation of 'traspie', and that they all don't have to look like a fake-step-slide-step is perhaps good idea.
habanero rhythm, and how to step in simple ways to this rhythm.
conveying the idea that learning and practicing milonga 'later' might not work out so well - that sometimes dancers get better at tango and continue to be unppracticed at milonga (due to easily explainable reasons - it's danced and played less, so fewer opportunities), and when one is already good at tango, embracing the clumsiness of being not-so-good in milonga is unappetizing - and you fall into a vicious cycle of not practicing milonga. solution is to suck it up and find ways to practice milonga from the get go
an introduction to the general idea that one doesn't have to dance milonga in complex looking ways, and that it feels good to start out with simple dancing that's musical (it applies to tango and vals too, but i think it's much easier to fall into the trappings of trying too hard with milonga).
some discussion of how to employ momentary pauses in milonga in appropriate ways that doesn't result in the feeling of being stalled.
Actually, I notice that many beginner leaders dance milonga even when dancing tango, by dancing on every beat anyway. I sometimes have to teach beginners to take a pause sometimes.
If I recall correctly, I never saw traspie included in milonga until after I had been dancing for a few years, or about 15 years ago. I also don't recall seeing it very much in BA in 1994. I'm wondering if it was a minor part of milonga until some teachers began presenting it in the US, and now people think it is an integral part of milonga.
quixotedlm
Active Member
Which reminds me of another thought: it might make sense to talk about how tango music in general is counted by dancers. this may or may not be a good topic for a milonga/vals class, but i think there's value in it. In general, the time between two downbeats is counted as a time-unit - a 'slow' step, and 'quick' is half as much (i.e., time between a down and an up beat).
In many other dances, as well as among casual listeners of music, the counting (if any) treats the time between a down and an up beat as the unit of tempo. I think at least in some instances, dancers who are dancing tango 'too fast' are doing so because they are listening to the music differently from what is the norm in tango.
Subliminal
Well-Known Member
It's possible that the term was just codified for teaching. Several of my teachers who learned from the milongueros have told me that they pretty much make up whatever timing they like for milonga, as long as it goes with the beat. When the habenera beat comes to the forefront, they dance to that. When there is a super fast run in the music, they may dance the whole thing fast. Or some of them just stepped on every beat with almost no variation.
Subliminal
Well-Known Member
ok, thanks, I'm glad I'm not going crazy.
I think it makes a lot of sense. Especially when you start studying some of the old patterns of Pepito Avellaneda and some of the other milonga forerunners. Some of them just make a lot more sense when progressing down line of dance sideways.
Oh, btw Dave! I just thought of another exercise/topic for beginners. One of my teachers had a great exercise to demonstrate how tension can be used in the lead. Here's how it goes:
1. Have the leader an follower embrace.
2. Have the leader lead a side tap to the left the length of their normal sidestep, then lead the follower to collect back to center. (Rockstep with no weight.)
3. Have the leader lead a side tap /half/ the distance of their full sidestep to the left, then collect.
4. One more time, have the leader lead a tap a quarter of the distance of their full step, then collect.
5. Now have them pick a random distance, and not tell the follower which is which.
During this, the follower's part is to pay attention to the upper body of her partner and how much tension is in each lead. Either before they start, or after they've fumbled around a bit, you tell the leader and follower to try another exercise. They are to take their embrace and deliberately "tighten" it a bit. Focusing on sharpening their connection for a moment. Then relax. then they are to incorporate this into the first exercise. The leader sharpens his embrace, the follower tries to match the tension, then the lead comes for the side tap.
(What they'll hopefully find is that a brief moment of tension creates greater precision for hitting very tight complicated footwork.)
Anyway. I think that's a cool way to demonstrate a fundamental concept of the milonga connection.
It's possible that the term was just codified for teaching. Several of my teachers who learned from the milongueros have told me that they pretty much make up whatever timing they like for milonga, as long as it goes with the beat. When the habenera beat comes to the forefront, they dance to that. When there is a super fast run in the music, they may dance the whole thing fast. Or some of them just stepped on every beat with almost no variation.
In other words they just dance (milonga) what they feel,
no more and no less. So never mind obsessing about the
explanations, the words, the movements, just milonga (dance).
Just Dance What You Feel . . . .
The Limits of the Basic Style - defined only by the embrace
Vocabulary of Movement - Improvisation within the embrace
Fits the Music - Dance the Music
Suits Your Partner - Whatever works comfortably together
Just Dance What You Feel - Agreement!!!
The Limits of the Basic Style - defined only by the embrace
Vocabulary of Movement - Improvisation within the embrace
Fits the Music - Dance the Music
Suits Your Partner - Whatever works comfortably together
Just Dance What You Feel - Agreement!!!
bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
i like this..although they make the simple look decpetively easy
and I love Alejandro's musicality
and this is a good example of a baldosa with rocking steps
Subliminal
Well-Known Member
Indeed. Let's let tango and milonga die out, the last remnants of a forgotten era, because trying to teach it is wrong.
LadyLeader
Forum Master
The first five years I was obsessing about, movements, music, words,
explanations and THEN the dance appeared....
explanations and THEN the dance appeared....