Milonguero style
- Thread starter jantango
- Start date
jantango
Well-Known Member
And of course, after a certain amount of time goes by, you have to allow for the possibility that someone may have improved. I certainly hope I have improved over time, and I hate it when someone who danced with me quite awhile back still refuses to dance with me only because when they first danced with me 5+ years ago, they weren't thrilled. So if I expect to be given another chance at a different point in my development, I have to give others that chance too.
Of course, if you've danced with someone repeatedly over several years, and they are still doing whatever obnoxious thing they were the first time, eventually it makes sense to give up on them!
A milonga is a dance place for adults. We aren't teenagers at a sock hop feeling rejected if the boy or girl we like doesn't invite us to dance. Adults make decisions about with whom they want to dance and don't have to explain them to anyone. That's why invitation by head movement instead of verbal invitation works so well and doesn't put anyone on the spot.
There are dozens of men in the milongas who haven't invited me to dance. That's fine. I don't lose any sleep worrying about it. I know there are others who try to invite me, but I look away. That's my decision to make.
If we want quality in tango and not quantity of tandas, it pays to be patient waiting for the right partner and the right music.
LadyLeader
Forum Master
Zoopsia, nice to have you back! I have been missing your postings.
Jan, you have to remember that many of us aren't dancing in large metropolitan areas with multiple milongas, large tango communities and people who you don't really know. In my area, we don't have "dozens" of leaders even attending! If I were rejected by a dozen leaders at our weekly practica, that would mean I'd been rejected by people who weren't even present!
It's not at all like BA (and yes, I've been). We all know each other. Many of us are friends outside of tango. We have ONE local milonga per month and to dance on any other weekend, you have to travel a minimum of an hour. In fact, during the summer our own monthly milonga takes place at a venue that many of us have to travel an hour to. Even at the milonga, there aren't so many people that being rejected by dozens would leave you with any partners at all.
Most of us rely on the weekly practica to do any regular dancing, and I certainly think practicas are no place for snobbishness. I also think it is to the followers' advantage to encourage new leaders and help them develop, so that we have more good leaders. The only reason the leaders get to be choosy is because of the huge imbalance of leaders to followers here, not because they are "adult". IN fact, I would argue that often it is those being the choosiest who display the least maturity in their attitude because they are also often significantly inflating their own skills.
Thanks Lady. I don't know that I am "back"... I have limited time (and patience
) these days.
sixela
Well-Known Member
Uhm, would you actually describe most porteño men as adults? Tongue in cheek, many seem to me to be mentally stuck in puberty despite the age of their bodies, with all the advantages and disadvantages that derive from it ;-).
I wanted to edit my post but I couldn't type fast enough to fit into the 5 minute editing window that DF apparently no has. 
Nor could I delete my post and put the edited version in as a separate post. So here's my attempt to add the stuff I was trying to do by editing:
Most of us rely on the weekly practica to do any regular dancing, and I certainly think practicas are no place for snobbishness. Practicas have different rules and codes than milongas, and probably milongas account for less than 20% of the dancing that people here do.
The only reason the leaders get to be choosy in any of these events is because of the huge imbalance of leaders to followers here, not because they are more "adult". In fact, I would argue that often it is those being the choosiest who display the least maturity in their attitude because they are also often significantly inflating their own skills.
The best leaders here are not the most arrogant ones. We even have some leaders who refuse partners during the rotation in classes! Not because those women are likely to prove hazardous or rude, but just because they aren't deemed "good enough" by the leader, who apparently only wants to practice the move with a follower who can already do it, even though theoretically everyone is there to learn. This is especially galling when there are already more followers in the class, which happens frequently. I can accept that some couples don't rotate in a class (although I think they are making a mistake) but if someone IS rotating, they can't just refuse to dance with someone unless that person is rude or injurious. The leaders who do this, do so by simply walking away, sitting down or not returning to their place in the circle when they see they are about to match up to a follower they don't like. It is obvious to everyone that the follower has been abandoned and it is quite rude.
My point is that for you, being patient and waiting for the right partner and music probably means waiting a bit later that night or maybe waiting until the milonga you go to the next night or so. For me (and probably others here) it might mean waiting 2 months and still having no gaurantee that you will ever get to dance!
Nor could I delete my post and put the edited version in as a separate post. So here's my attempt to add the stuff I was trying to do by editing:Most of us rely on the weekly practica to do any regular dancing, and I certainly think practicas are no place for snobbishness. Practicas have different rules and codes than milongas, and probably milongas account for less than 20% of the dancing that people here do.
The only reason the leaders get to be choosy in any of these events is because of the huge imbalance of leaders to followers here, not because they are more "adult". In fact, I would argue that often it is those being the choosiest who display the least maturity in their attitude because they are also often significantly inflating their own skills.
The best leaders here are not the most arrogant ones. We even have some leaders who refuse partners during the rotation in classes! Not because those women are likely to prove hazardous or rude, but just because they aren't deemed "good enough" by the leader, who apparently only wants to practice the move with a follower who can already do it, even though theoretically everyone is there to learn. This is especially galling when there are already more followers in the class, which happens frequently. I can accept that some couples don't rotate in a class (although I think they are making a mistake) but if someone IS rotating, they can't just refuse to dance with someone unless that person is rude or injurious. The leaders who do this, do so by simply walking away, sitting down or not returning to their place in the circle when they see they are about to match up to a follower they don't like. It is obvious to everyone that the follower has been abandoned and it is quite rude.
My point is that for you, being patient and waiting for the right partner and music probably means waiting a bit later that night or maybe waiting until the milonga you go to the next night or so. For me (and probably others here) it might mean waiting 2 months and still having no gaurantee that you will ever get to dance!
Lilly_of_the_valley
Well-Known Member
I wish to say something about the class situation you describe. The class instructor can do something to turn the situation around. If a student decides to pass a follower in the rotation, it may mean she gets to dance with the teacher. The lady, instead of feeling abandoned, receives personal attention in class, and the rude guy in question gets a chance to see that a skillful leader can lead virtually anyone. If there are several followers without a partner, the instructor can organize them in a mini "ladies technique workshop" for the duration on the song. Also the teacher may encourage ladies to lead or at least give them an exercise they can do in pairs. So again, they get instructions, work on their skills, and the snubs are the ones who are excluded (well, they excluded themselves).
Lilly_of_the_valley
Well-Known Member
I know it is an assumption, but I cannot help but think, the abovementioned situation prone to happen more in classes that introduce patterns rather than technique. Otherwise the leader has actually lead the move, and it should make little difference whether the follower knows the move or not. It takes more skills, clarity etc, to lead less experienced follower (and vice versa). So people who are in the class for the skills, not for the moves, would appreciate practicing with partners of various levels.
This is just an idea I heard once, and has nothing to do with leaders passing partners in class.
If there are two or more ladies standing out in the rotation, having no partners, they should not stand next to each other, which sometimes happens. That will ensure that they stand out twice, or more, in a row before getting a partner. They should find places in between couples.
It seems obvious once you think about it.
I think it says far more about the leader/s in question than about the class. It's usually not about the class material... it's about some leaders not wanting to dance with anyone they deem "below" their own level (when in fact the follower may be at or above his level, but it shouldn't matter either way) In any class, there will be some variation of levels because the community isn't large enough to support classes that are too restricted.
And of course, there are leaders who decide a follower isn't worthy because of her build rather than her ability.
I'm not saying this happens frequently, but it has happened to a few followers I know.
On the rare occasions I actually take a class as a follower, when it's my turn to wait out, I will simply switch to leading another un-partnered follower.
If I was aware that I was the follower that a leader came to in his attempt to skip someone else, I would probably just say "I'm leading this rotation" and walk away from him and go to the follower he skipped, even if that meant their were no other followers available to him. (so there!)
(As a totally off topic side note, I am always dismayed at the flak women get for leading in a class with not enough followers. Some of the guys get quite vocal about how the female leader should be doing the follower's part since they need more followers. Those same guys are the ones who will NEVER try to follow themselves if the class has extra leaders.
)Anyway... didn't mean to hijack the thread from the original topic.
Here, here!
I may have missed it in all the posts, but I'm curious (if you are willing to share) what her criticism / complaint was?