Mixed tandas

[pianistamediano]

It seems someone, somewhere, in every society (culture) wants to present AT in some clean, sanitised, elevated, form - but this doesn't seem to market it.

That clean, sanitized, elevated version is very popular in East Asia, apparently!

 

[opendoor]

...need a dance card!

You seem to be influenced by the Argentine film industry. Dance cards were quite common in Buenos Aires during the GA and before that. Argentine tango seamlessly replaced English tango in high society dance events. Anyone wanting to dance to di Sarli in one of the luxurious cabarets needed a tuxedo, ordered a table with champagne, and dutifully filled out dance cards for foxtrot, bolero, and Viennese waltz (all of this is well documented). The tango downtown with split seating and knife fights rather are artificial media constructs.

..they're very prim and proper about tango. No mugre in their souls. Tango is a dance of the people — hilarious!

There always has been a ballroomized version of tango in Asia. Keep in mind that the major orchestras regularly undertook extensive tours during the late 1950s to 1970s there. Asia was one of the refuges when tango once again died out in Buenos Aires. I consider the Asian tango tradition to be very authentic. And consider what treasures the Asian record collectors have left us!

..even more hilarious is that they still celebrate unorthodox couples like Lorena/Gianpiero..

Why do you find them both unorthodox? In the context I mentioned above, they're actually overly conventional. When you think of Gianpiero, you immediately see a BR dancer, don't you?

 

[JournalInTime]

conservative

dress-up correctly

prim and proper

clean, sanitised, elevated

To me, all of the above sounds like Tango Hell!

Let me be clear: I shave, shower, tie up my (hair-metal length) hair, use mouthwash and deodorant, wear clean clothing, show up with extra shirts to change into when sweaty, wipe my face and wash my hands if sticky, etc. I avoid all strong-smelling foods on dance days. You could say that my person is clean – maybe even sanitized.

But every man in a jacket and tie? Every woman in a gown? Formal handshakes? A safe distance between partners? The whole thing an illusion of an old-timey ball? Except at an actual ball, that would drive me nuts!

I'd say that 99% (not exaggerating) of my dancing is at ordinary weekly milongas. These are local social clubs with dancing – not balls. People often come directly from work or (after a shower) the gym. Having seen even the best dancers and teachers show up in clean T-shirts, I've adopted the habit for its airiness and comfort; sure, they're costly, fitted bamboo rayon T-shirts that I replace every month or three, but they aren't eveningwear and they are very, very practical for dancing. The women I dance with wear the same skirts they'd wear to a nightclub or slacks they'd wear to work, and aren't above T-shirts, either. I don't worry about their brightly-dyed hair, piercings, tattoos, or other non-conservative decorations. And when I greet tango friends, it's with hugs, kisses on the cheeks, smiles and laughter.

When I think it through, this is "my life for decades: the tango version." It'd never occur to me to change any of it for tango, beyond wearing trousers and shoes optimal for dance.

but this doesn't seem to market it.

Every now and then, somebody here tries to run a more formal, more dress-up milonga. They can make it work a couple of times per year, as a highly affected novelty event. They cannot make it work more often, as a regular event. Several of the longer-running and more successful milongas here are what I'd describe as "casual to very casual." That appears to be the sustainable model for the market, probably because it's affordable.

A few — though I was speaking of the milongas in China (and Korea, come to think of it); gathered from anecdotes by friends, and videos I found online or shown to me by said friends.

For whatever reason, I am friends with and dance with a great many women of East Asian origin – many expat Chinese, almost as many expat Japanese, and several each Korean and Vietnamese. All have danced in their countries of origin, and all have confirmed that the level of dance there is high, but also sterile. It is, as you said, as if people think they're competing in the Mundial.

One of my expat Chinese tanguera friends recently returned from a visit. She said that guys there dance more precisely than me, but that none of them are as fun, as expressive, or as original as me – they are like (to quote) "cloned ballroom robots." I have also danced from visitors from East Asia, and I find their personal-space issues and visible discomfort with humor get in the way of my dancing.

Of course, this is all anecdotal. Maybe people I don't know and haven't met are nothing like this. Perhaps my tanguera friends all left East Asia for the same reasons, and don't fit in there. I have no clue.

—

DJ calls Last Tanda and La Cumparsita (instrumental only) is the last one played of the set.

I know most of our local DJs. They announce, "Last tanda!" / "Dernière tanda!", and then play a four-song tanda that consists of three pieces followed by La Cumparsita, all by the same orquesta in the same era. Occasionally, if the last tanda falls where a vals or milonga would be played, were the evening to continue, the DJ digs out a vals or milonga arrangement of La Cumparsita, and plays a three-song tanda of two valses/milongas followed by La Cumparsita-vals/milonga.

It happens that the final cortina of the night is too close to closing time to squeeze in a full tanda, but the normal response to shorten the tanda. Shortening it to just La Cumparsita happens, but is viewed as an unfortunate necessity. Avoiding the cortina and tacking La Cumparsita onto the last tanda as a fifth piece happens almost never, and when it does, is regarded as an actual error – people pause dancing and stare in the DJ's general direction.

However, this might be peculiar to our scene, because this . . .

Of course, it's a signal for packing up and farewells, so some don't dance it but pack up to leave.

. . . isn't the case. Most milongas here take place in dedicated tango studios, not in rented spaces with the clock ticking. "Closing time" is functionally a suggestion. Nobody at an event scheduled for, say, 8 p.m. to midnight cares if La Cumparsita is at 12:09 a.m., or if dancers aren't packed up and gone before 12:30 a.m. In fact, many organizers hang out and chat with dancers well past the official end time. A few milongas in practice continue "until the last couple leaves the floor," and I've attended some where the DJ, organizers, and their friends wait for that and take a 10-minute pause, and then the DJ plays more tandas for the night owls.

So, there's no pressure. Everybody knows that La Cumparsita marks only the end of the organizers' promise to play music, and isn't a "Pack up and get out!" signal.

There are a couple of exceptions where the space is rented and people are pressured to leave, but I dislike that dynamic, so I've stopped going there. That level of structure bugs me just as much as trying to turn a local social club into a formal ball.

Personally I never used to like it as a strange mishmash, and I found interpreting it trying. Then someone chose the D'Arienzo version and that version has now become a firm favourite. We have given up occasionally on some other versions.

I actually really like Solo's vals version, too. But yeah, I'm a D'Arienzo diehard for the most part.

I've never met anyone, inside or outside Argentina, who refuses to dance it for this reason.

As I said, it seems to be a Bizarro World tradition that hasn't made it to where I live.

 

[JournalInTime]

There always has been a ballroomized version of tango in Asia. Keep in mind that the major orchestras regularly undertook extensive tours during the late 1950s to 1970s there. Asia was one of the refuges when tango once again died out in Buenos Aires. I consider the Asian tango tradition to be very authentic. And consider what treasures the Asian record collectors have left us!

I think we can appreciate the preservation of the dance and the music without necessarily wanting the rituals of seating, costume, manners, etc. preserved alongside it. I mean, I appreciate Mozart, but I don't wear a wig when I go to the symphony!

Why do you find them both unorthodox? In the context I mentioned above, they're actually overly conventional. When you think of Gianpiero, you immediately see a BR dancer, don't you?

I'd rate GG and LT as highly conventional (I think GG was more inventive when he was dancing with Maria Filali, to be honest). My definition of "unorthodox" starts with Emmanuel Casal and Yanina Muzyka, and gets less conventional from there.

 

[brujo]

I understood that you dance the Cumparsita with your spouse or lady you’re going home with so by not dancing it you let people know that you’re single and ready to mingle.

 

[TTanguero]

I mean, I appreciate Mozart, but I don't wear a wig when I go to the symphony!

Really, sir! Standards are slipping.

 

[pianistamediano]

I'd rate GG and LT as highly conventional (I think GG was more inventive when he was dancing with Maria Filali, to be honest). My definition of "unorthodox" starts with Emmanuel Casal and Yanina Muzyka, and gets less conventional from there.

On the other hand, if you consider just how conservative tango is in this part of the world... It's a big dose of star power and other factors.

I could hardly give a bat's fart about people telling me what to wear at a milonga. I've danced long enough that I know I'm at my best when I'm most comfortable. A friend just got back from an event in Shanghai, for example, and he told me explicitly that the moment he walked in to the first milonga of that event, he felt uncomfortable. Everything was too stiff, formal, ritualised even, and the people were overwhelmingly into the Mundial style. So he spent the rest of his time having more fun in the local milongas instead.

Insanity! What is this ridiculous habit of isolating and elevating tango that happens so much here in Asia? How the hell do you even dance milonga properly then? It's not milonga if it's not grounded and dirty! Right now, in many, many places, tango is a dance primarily for an affluent middle class, and it shows. Oh, it shows. Their affectations and pretensions to high society reveal their true colours.

South Korea isn't so bad, because I've personally danced with dancers from Seoul who felt amazing and stayed in the embrace the whole time.

 

[pianistamediano]

Which BR elements do they apply, pianistamediano?

See the next page of posts; but essentially, very sanitised, much more formalised, much less individualistic, there's a lot more (narrow) focus on technique and looking good, and they treat a milonga like it's some high-class gathering. I resent having to wear a suit (or even a shirt) just to fit in such places. I will take my cat t-shirts elsewhere — they'd be more well received in places like Buenos Aires. Hmph!

 

[Rabbit]

I think it is partly a cultural thing, I find that most East Asian followers aren't expressive enough nor do they show much personality in their dance.

 

[JournalInTime]

a lot more (narrow) focus on technique and looking good

Focus on technique is a tricky one . . . for me, the "why" matters a lot there.

Technique is the single greatest limit on one's musicality, expressiveness, inventiveness, and improvisational skills. Focusing on technique to push those things further – to have a greater range of options available to mark the music and to adapt to one's partner – is in my view unambiguously positive. However, focusing on technique for technique's sake – to advertise to the world, "Check out my flawless academic tango!" – is an exercise in perversity unless you're at the milonga as a teacher sneakily advertising for students (which has its own problems . . .).

Focusing on looking good is simply missing the point. You dance for yourself, your partner, and – if you're bizarre like me – the memory of the orquesta leaders, all of which is about feeling and not appearances. You dance to respect other dancers, too, but that's practical, not aesthetic; the color of your car doesn't matter in a collision. But the moment you're dancing to look good to onlookers, you're sacrificing being present with yourself, your partner, and the music – and being safe around other dancers – to, I don't know, woo future partners? Earn artistic brownie points? I can't even understand the "why," because social dance isn't a performance.

Sure, there are people who might admire your feeling or floorcraft even if you aren't showing off, so you could say that "looking good" can include "looking well-connected to your body, your partner, the music, and the other dancers on the floor." That isn't very many people, though. The majority of ordinary dancers at the majority of ordinary milongas can't appreciate such things. Also, it still implies dancing for onlookers, which however good you are comes at some price for yourself and the person in front of you.

I've been at occasional events where everybody seems to be showing off technique and aesthetics. I can almost see Mundial judges materializing out of the ether, summoned by this perverse ritual. I can definitely see the occasional furtive glance at the "audience," as if to assess what people think or to size up who to impress so they'll accept a later invitation. I generally don't stay for long . . . the environment is innately antisocial and, all too often, anti-musical and navigationally irritating.

 

[JournalInTime]

I think it is partly a cultural thing, I find that most East Asian followers aren't expressive enough nor do they show much personality in their dance.

I think it depends on the person, but yeah, I've observed a tendency in that direction. Followers from there – visitors, and resident and naturalized expats – on the whole seem to have less presence, almost as though they want to take up less space in the dance, or to accessorize the leader rather than be the leader's equal in all things. I don't know enough about the many and diverse cultures of East Asia to say why this is so, and when I remarked on the tendency to my coach, she simply said, "Well, of course" without explanation.

Whereas Eastern European and Turkish followers are the opposite. You leave them less than 50% of the dance at your peril. Failure to give space and accord equality is a recipe for never dancing with that person again (and, in some cases, a mid-tanda "thank you"). I happen to like this. Again, I cannot explain it, and again my coach just said, "Well, of course."

 

[Rabbit]

Focus on technique is a tricky one . . . for me, the "why" matters a lot there.

Technique is the single greatest limit on one's musicality, expressiveness, inventiveness, and improvisational skills. Focusing on technique to push those things further – to have a greater range of options available to mark the music and to adapt to one's partner – is in my view unambiguously positive. However, focusing on technique for technique's sake – to advertise to the world, "Check out my flawless academic tango!" – is an exercise in perversity unless you're at the milonga as a teacher sneakily advertising for students (which has its own problems . .

To me the entire point of dance is expression and the technique is just an enabler.

I can see that some people enjoy a purely technical version, but I don't really understand what they get out of it. I don't think it feels good and I don't think it looks good either.

 

[opendoor]

..most of our local DJs. They announce, "Last tanda!" / "Dernière tanda!", and then play a four-song tanda that consists of three pieces followed by La Cumparsita..

At my January set, I announced this final tanda. Honestly, I wouldn't normally want to dance to such music, but many couples did til the very last note of the final piece. Even though I mixed two orchestras, the lush orchestral sound is quite consistent.
I found this solution interesting because the first notes of the medley already hint at La Cumparsita, but then it transitions to Caminito and Tiempos Viejos. (At the request of the female regulars, I play three-piece tandas.)

1) Potpourri de Tango - Oscar Macri & Rodolfo Lemos (Sassone)
2) Inspiración - Instrumental (Troilo)
3) La Cumparsita - Instrumental (Troilo)

 

[TTanguero]

But the moment you're dancing to look good to onlookers, you're sacrificing being present with yourself, your partner, and the music – and being safe around other dancers – to, I don't know, woo future partners? Earn artistic brownie points? I can't even understand the "why," because social dance isn't a performance.

It's so bizarre: they are willing to give their current partner a less than optimal experience in order to attract a future partner! I can only assume it's insecurity, seeking external validation for something they don't feel themselves.

 

[opendoor]

It's so bizarre.. seeking external validation for something they don't feel themselves.

Your judgment is very harsh and it annoys me, TT . Conversely, I could just as easily accuse all inward-directed dancers of being fixated on the opposite sex and using the formal embrace as a substitute for real experience (I refrained from being more precise). You can't simply present your own subgroup as normative and exemplary. Tango is diverse, and my subgroup has the same reach and the same legitimacy than yours. And none of my dance partners have ever done it differently: their body tension and doubling frequency always increased near certain tables. And I did the same near the photographer or the rivals. The dance floor is the space for communicating with the community; you're abusing it. Honestly, cuddling and enjoying each other is a private matter; invite your dance partners over to your home instead.