more nitty gritty

[s2k]

USAdance requiring50 percent wdsf judges may not help the American style either. Don't know

I've only been a USAD member for three years, so I've joined in the middle of the organization's major meltdown. I understand why, in the International styles, we'd want 50% WDSF judges. But I do not believe for one second International (geographically AND stylistically) judges brought over from Germany, Brazil, Belarus etc have any idea of what American Smooth or American Rhythm - ESPECIALLY rhythm - ought to look like. So don't put International judges on the American-style panels. Because the dancers who are training with American-style coaches aren't getting the credit in the finals.

When a couple can put the same cha cha, rumba and "swing" on the floor in an open Rhythm category AND use those exact same three routines for Latin - and the judges reward that... it can't make the couples who are sharing the floor in rhythm feel rewarded, or even that important. That the organization doesn't see the value in a particular style enough to get a panel that can really give credit where it's due doesn't make me feel all that warm and fuzzy toward the organization. If this were a closed category, they'd be invigilated. If a pro couple danced jive for swing at a NDCA comp they wouldn't win swing.

It's not in my personality to complain without offering a solution - but I don't see how there is one. All the young pros who really care about their competitive careers are in RS or Pro with NDCA. How can we grow judges with a successful competitive background - meaning, they have titles, they are (or were, and recently) on the podium, their pro-am students have titles or are (or were) on the podium - if those pro dancers stick with NDCA, who is left for USAD?

If this sounds insulting, it's not my intention. It's my frustration.

 

[Joe]

Remember that it was USA Dance that stormed out of the NDCA.

Not exactly. Now, maybe your argument is that USAD (well, one person in the leadership) forced the NDCA's hand into booting USAD from the NDCA, and that would be different.

I've only been a USAD member for three years, so I've joined in the middle of the organization's major meltdown. I understand why, in the International styles, we'd want 50% WDSF judges. But I do not believe for one second International (geographically AND stylistically) judges brought over from Germany, Brazil, Belarus etc have any idea of what American Smooth or American Rhythm - ESPECIALLY rhythm - ought to look like.

Bah. You aren't gonna see wholesale "foreign" judges on USA Dance panels, because it costs organizers so much money to bring those folks over. If they're not running WDSF events at their comp, odds are you won't see any--almost all judges will be drawn from the pool of American WDSF-qualified judges. And if organizers need "foreign" WDSF judges, odds are they'll hire Canadians, who are far more likely to be familiar with American Style than Euro/Asian/S. American judges.

 

[Mr 4 styles]

Agree vast majority of the wdsf certified judges at nationals currently live and work in the USA

 

[Mr 4 styles]

S2k. That Latin in rhythm category thing has happened for years. There has been slow progress in that arena as it is everywhere with rhythm . I can say that the winning couples are doing rhythm. The mrs and I trained with Decho and Bree when we did rhythm and went from zero to senior national champs in champ rhythm in four years. So keep putting the good stuff out there and the judges will get it . Smooth seems to have some issues as well as open work seems less rewarded than in the past but this tends to cycle as well

 

[s2k]

Agree vast majority of the wdsf certified judges at nationals currently live and work in the USA

I do not know where the USA Dance Nationals judges live. I can only tell you the countries listed next to their names in the program. I made an assumption based on what I read. Now I'm even more confused. Why list "Germany" next to your name if you live HERE? And maybe/possibly/probably have US Citizenship? Was that the country they represented, perhaps, in the past, when they competed? Is that the country they represent now, as a judge? I honestly do not know. Thanks in advance to anyone who can clarify.

But my point about having qualified judges on a panel for that style remains. When Carolina Orlovsky started judging pro-am, I darn near cried with joy.

@Mr4 - we can only hope. Thanks for the bright side.

 

[Bailamosdance]

Why is this thread called 'nitty gritty' rather than something that more reflects the discussion? Just asking'...

 

[Mr 4 styles]

Coz it can be a hodgepodge of opinion conjecture and complaints

 

[Mr 4 styles]

When Bree Watson started judging pro am I thought about doing nine dance with my smooth pro

 

[tangotime]

they'll hire Canadians, who are far more likely to be familiar with American Style than Euro/Asian/S. American judges.

I adjudicated for many years in the States , in ALL divisions and I can tell you this; it depends upon the judges background. Many "English " judges had little interest in the Amer. styles from a teaching standpoint ( why would they ?.. they were there for their expertise in Intern. ) And there were those that did "school " themselves .

However, IF one wishes to work in an Amer. studio, then its to ones benefit to learn the "system ( As did I ) .

 

[Joe]

And if you are working in an American studio, that means you are living in America, and therefore your Englishness will not count against you when hiring, since it won't cost the usual rate to fly you over. When you "adjudicated for many years in the States" were you living in England, and was it for pro comps or amateur comps?

 

[tangotime]

And if you are working in an American studio, that means you are living in America, and therefore your Englishness will not count against you when hiring, since it won't cost the usual rate to fly you over. When you "adjudicated for many years in the States" were you living in England, and was it for pro comps or amateur comps?

I was living in the States, but originally trained in the UK and taught there.

I judged at Prof. Championship level, among regular Amat. and Pro / Am. I also MCd on occasion in addition to running many comps, noticeably, the 1st NY city one (1964 ) , where Chains and Indies competed together ( I believe a 1st in the US ) also managed the same feat in Phoenix..

The panel, were mainly English , which prompted some high profile competitors to attend. All had a good American style education , at that moment in time .

 

[Joe]

How many of the other Englishmen were living outside the US at the time?

 

[tangotime]

How many of the other Englishmen were living outside the US at the time?

I don't quite understand your question ?.. "other "? on the panel ? . All if that's what you mean

 

[Joe]

You said you were living in the US at the time; I asked if all the other Englishmen on your panel were living in the US, or outside it. You said the latter.

 

[Mr 4 styles]

I think TT was a pioneer