More work advice needed

Peaches

Peaches

Well-Known Member
OK, so. Last week I went out to Cincy to teach two classes. It's not important what I was teaching (nor was it, in any remote sense, interesting to anyone except us dorks in the field, LOL).

My first class: two "editors," two "leads." Small, I know. But still, I had to teach it. I couldn't have asked for a better class. It's a new study--to them, certainly, as this is only the start of the second year they've been working it--so I'm learning almost along with them. They are receptive to requests to "comlog" me with questions, and are really willing to think and to engage with me and the subject matter. This study is an exercise in fitting square pegs into round holes; I won't make a bazillion changes to the data entry manual to fit each scenario, because so many universal rules just won't work. My editors get this, and respond, and make suggestions, and work with me.

My second class...diametrically opposite to the first. Three editors, the same two leads. I try to approach it with the same "ask me, I'm here to help" attitude. No such luck. I have one extremely combative, argumentative, has problems with women in positions of authority leader...who disrupts things. One of the leads just...well, I don't want to say she's stupid. She's not. But...wow, she should not be a lead, by any stretch, and she confuses the matter more than she knows. I solicit input for areas where they would like clarification...repeatedly...nothing. Crickets. I don't dismiss what input my editors have to give me...gets me nowhere. They don't ask questions, but then I get slammed when the answers they get aren't what I'm saying. (They ask my not-so-with-it lead...which just creates a world of problems. I can't even begin to describe. Well, I could, but I ramble enough.) I address things as best I know how, but...without input, and without any sort of heads-up, it's not easy. My difficult editor, at one point, had something of a tantrum where he ended up literally (and I do mean literally) banging on the keyboard with both hands to "prove" his point. (Actually, he ended just just locking up the data entry system for himself so he had to start over. Attempts to explain what was going on...just failed. Spectacularly.)

Suggestions? Anyone? How to maintain control of a class when I've got one student who will outright talk over me, interrupt, ignore, heckle? How to encourage communication? How to convey the point that if they don't give my any idea of what issues they're having, I can't possibly address things? How to get them involved, and engaged?

My dad has suggested that I just come prepared with a raft of class examples, and keep them busy...work on each one on their own for a while, and then go over it together. DH has suggested that I engage my "difficult" editor by making him get up and explain himself. (Not "explain yourself young man." More, " 'Lou' has brought something he feels is important. 'Lou,' how about you take us through this case and explain why you made the decisions you made.")

Part of this is not wanting to go through the experience of last week's second training class again. Another part...the really really important part...is that if they don't understand how to do their job, it's my data that looks like crap. Which is a real problem.

Any thoughts?

Teaching is, by far, the hardest part of my job. And I have to do it for these two studies every year. It's not going to get better unless I make it better. (Although I've been told that my "difficult" editor is downright cooperative compared to how he used to be. Others have tried to get him thrown off the study. With no luck. Which is a whole other can of worms.) I've tried being open and friendly. I've tried letting people have their say. I've tried drawing them out and getting them to be more specific about their complaints or questions (communication is a BIG BIG issue). I've tried going in and being the "witch." I've tried going in with an open and accepting attitude. Nothing seems to work. I'm at a loss.

Help?
 
Tequila.

No, seriously, it sounds like you have two problems, the inable (is that a word?) lead and the difficult editor. Of the two, the editor is by far the problem to handle first. "Nip it in the bud," as Barnie Fife used to say. (Please don't tell me you don't know who that is or I'll really feel old!)

I like DH's approach, but I'm afraid that would give the difficult editor the license to take over the class (sounds like that may be his goal.) Is it possible to do a one-on-one training with him? Something along the lines of, "Sounds like you have some interesting ideas. How about we take them off line and discuss?"
 
Yes, I know who Barney Fife is. LOL.

OK, so, deal with my difficult editor first. One-on-one is difficult. He likes to make a scene...be the center of attention...show off how he is top dog. Difficult. (The issue of him banging on the keyboard...and then picking it up and banging it against the desk, I sh*t you not, was started in a one-on-one conversation.) How do you suggest dealing with this?

I am honestly not trying to make excuses. This just does not come naturally to me at all, so I'm asking for concrete suggestions. Anything and everything.

Is it better to attempt a drastic move to put him in his place to take control, or to appear to cede it and find a way to direct him without him knowing?

Seriously. I need any and all help. The more concrete the better. (Interpersonal skills are really not my strong point. What may be obvious to others just...well, isn't...to me.)

ETA: And as re: tequila... After Day One of teaching the second class, I got back to the hotel...chain-smoked two cigarettes...and then detoured to the bar. One venting phone call to DH and two very strong vodka gimlets on an empty stomach later and I was able to deal again. This, obviously, is not a viable long-term solution.
 
okay, I get the picture. You're probably going to have to go with a "I'm in control here" kind of approach. Pull him aside and remind him that you've been asked by the powers that be (I'm assuming you two have the same boss if you go far enough up the chain of command?) to guide him in doing his job (better, easier, faster, you pick the term.) Point out that slamming keyboards is really not necessary nor helpful for any discussion you might be having. (In fact, if something like this happens again I'd make that remark in front of everyone, not just to him.) Remind him that there's no reason to be adversarial since both your tasks have the same end result in mind and that you expect his cooperation in the training session.

As my Mom says when I discuss I problem I'm having with my daughter, "Good Luck!"
 
Do you want the truth, or do you want to feel good? :-?

You may not reach everyone in this class. Sucky, I know. When I'm training (which reminds me -- must update materials by next week Grr.) I try to reach the reachable and try to avoid doing backflips for the unreachable. I know. I know.

In this case, I'd be pitching my presentations to the three people you haven't mentioned. Chances are, they're the three with the greatest chance of actually learning something useful in this class.

Belligerent dude? Eh. I'd probably take him head on, but use humor. Guys (and gals) like that love to escalate. Humor can stop them. With the keyboard incident, for example, I might have said something like, "Oookaaaayyy.... I guess you showed that keyboard who's boss. *polite laugh* We'll wait while you reboot, so you don't miss anything." See what I mean? The more he gets under your skin, the more he's in control and you're out.


Also re-vamp your materials to invite individual engagement and take the spotlight off BD. "Invite" people to answer questions one at a time. Break the group of five into groups of twos or threes for various exercises. See if there's somebody in the class who has an an affinity for bellierent dude. (Belligo-dudes usually pick a stooge to reinforce them, IME.) If there is somebody who likes BD, assign that person to partner with him for small group exercises.

I have more tricks, but I don't really have enough info about your class to know what's useful.

Bottom line -- next time I was standing in front of this group, I'd do a literal verbal reboot. "Look. Last time we were here, I wasn't comfortable with the way things went. So, this time, I'm going to take a different approach. Here are the exercises (or whatever) I worked on last weekend for you guys. Yes. You may not agree with me (pause to look at belligo-dude) but I'm asking you to go with me on this. At the end of class, feel free to give me feedback about things you think aren't working so I can improve for next time." Then call on one or more of the three easy students to help you move forward and pretend to ignore the difficult ones.


My $0.02.
 
NURDRMS said:
"Nip it in the bud," as Barnie Fife used to say. (Please don't tell me you don't know who that is or I'll really feel old!)
Click to expand...



This is hilarious to me, btw. Yesterday, I wanted to mention Gomer Pyle to someone, but decided that they probably were too young to know. *fleeing encroaching old age* :lol:


Feeling your pain, NURDRMS. :cool:
 
Oh yeah. Use a parking lot. Get a flip chart or some place where you can write down issues that have come up and need to be addressed later.

So, when BD interrupts you with something unhelpful or irrelevant, you can write his comments in the parking lot and address them in the five-minute review at the end of the day. You're in control and he's not. :cool:

Make sense? That's worked very well for me in the past. I usually introduce the parking lot within the first hour of day one -- same time I introduce ground rules, which include mutual respect, being on time, etc, etc.
 
Gotcha. This is long term.

Document out the wazoo. You may reach only three of the five in class, during training. Make sure that five out of five (and everybody in your chain of command) has paper or electronic copies of every last bit of reference materials these folks need to succeed, after class is over.
 
Hmmm...lots of food for thought...

Point of Agreement #1 seems to be that dealing with The Guy has got to be a head-on approach. Humorous or otherwise. Ignoring him and not giving him any attention has not let to his stopping. (Sorry, Mom, your long-standing wisdom on this issue is not cutting it.)

Do you all have suggestions for how to handle the situation when he talks over me, either when I'm teaching to the class as a whole or answering someone's individual question (either in front of the class or one-on-one)? Or how to handle situations where, when I'm teaching the class as a whole, he'll start teaching/commenting/having other side conversations with someone else (not quietly, but not talking to the room loud)?

Things I have tried: ignoring (not giving attention), asking if he had a question or a point to make (dangerous, since he loves to grand-stand), politely and pointedly asking him to please save his comments for the end of the lecture/answer/whatever, telling him more pointedly and less politely to please stop and let me answer someone else's question.

I'm tempted to take DH's approach of waiting until he's wound himself down for a bit (with a requisite nonplussed facial expression) and then just dead-panning with "Are you finished?"



Any suggestions for how to interrupt grand-standing?


I have more questions about this work situation--how better to engage with my editors and leads, how to encourage feedback, ways in which I can revamp my materials to encourage interaction, how to get through to my lead. (She's one I can't write off--she is, frighteningly, in charge of doing quality review...I HAVE GOT to try my hardest to get her to get it. Kinda like pushing a rope uphill, but I gotta try.) I'll ask those later, but I want to explore The Guy aspect of things first.

Oh, and Pyg, you mentioned that you couldn't give more advice without knowing more about the class. What do you need to know? (Yes, I will pick your brain for all that I can, and all that you'll let me. ;) )
 
Winding down right now and need a nap. Sorry. Will check in later with more suggestions, though.


In the meantime, though, I will say that, with grandstanders, I sometimes use absolute silence. It's amazing how quickly silence can work. Americans hate it. Just let him talk without any rebuttal or resistance. I'd be willing to bet he can't go for long. When he's gone on long enough to embarrass himself, I'd use fogging, rather than "Are you finished?" "Are you finished?" escalates, or invites him to.
Fogging finds a point of agreement and regains control. "Jim, I see what you mean about the database being unfriendly. You should've seen me banging my head against the keyboard while I was writing up my report last week. * polite laugh* But it's what we have to work with so... " transition back to relevant material.


Hang in. Hugs. :friend:
 
i don't function well in that sort of world but my two brief thoughts are this;...obnoxious dude needs firm, smiling authority but authority nontheless...that is not being withcy, but he needs to be held publically responsible for being a brat....he has a big ego...he needs to see that you will dontinue to endanger it, if he continues to be a brute....as to the absence of questions, my hunch on that would be to make that request sound more like an absolute neccessity...something you need, which would be a favor to you in helping the process...most people are afraid to be vulnerable but they are also eager to please....
 
hmmmmm, here's a thought or two. I do teach and we have many "alphas" in the classes. Some of the teachers (in our work discipline) use the post it note. They mention at the beginning of class, before breaks of class, and during exercise scenarios "if you have a comment, a thought or two as we are pressed for time - I encourage you to use the post it board, or pads and write them down. At the end of the class we can all take a look and address your thoughts if time permits." Actually, we incorporate exercise/scenarios twice a day as our classes are all day events. Prepping the group(s) for a scenario then letting them run with it and developing objectives for however long we pre-determine. Then they do presentations of the assigned objectives by group. Tends to get everyone chatting, developing, and busy.
 
My situation is a little different, since I am a teacher, and my students understand that they are students, not employees getting training but who are not full-time students.

That being said, three thoughts:

#1--GROUND RULES.
I have dealt with some difficult people in my time. I have also dealt with students with pretty severe cases of Asperger's Syndrome. One of the challenges is that some students with Asperger's do not interpret social cues well, and do not care much what other people think of them. [N.B.: I have also had students with Asperger's who have their behaviors under control. I am talking about 2-3 I've had who do not.]

FIRM GROUND RULES are essential in such situations, e.g., NO ONE TALKS WITHOUT RAISING HIS/HER HAND.

Rule gets broken? Hold up your hand in a STOP gesture and cut in if necessary. "What happened to no talking without raising your hand?" Even perennial interrupters tend to get it when reminded that there was a RULE we all supposedly agreed to.

Now, you might say "Isn't that authoritarian and condescending?" Possibly, and it's not my favorite way to be. But honestly, a class with an out-of-control person can derail and be unproductive for everyone. People pay A LOT of money to go to college, and I OWE them a good class. So in a class of mild mannered individuals, I wouldn't be as strict, but in a class with an interrupter/derailer, GROUND RULES are vital.

And YES, you can impose ground rules even if it's not the first day. Just start with "I am going to establish some ground rules to keep our class productive. These rules are effective immediately."

#2--CHANNEL PEOPLE'S COMPETITIVE DRIVES BY HAVING CONTESTS AND/OR REWARDS. Now I know what you are thinking: "CCM, these are ADULTS." Yeah, okay, but we are typing this on a board where a large number of people engage in competitive ballroom dancing! Adults compete in running races, in vegetable growing, in poetry writing...people like to compete.

So if you have a group of 6-10, maybe that's 3 teams of 2-4 people each. Each team gets points for each ON TOPIC question its members ask...and maybe DOUBLE POINTS for a particularly incisive question.

By the way, sometimes the winning team can just get bragging rights, or a good word put in about its performance...but you can also go with more material rewards, like first pick of pastries, or candy bars to take home, or a Starbucks gift card, or a free appetizer at the restaurant closest to the training facility or something.

If you are thinking adults would not compete for a candy bar, I remind you: people on this board--people you know--pay $35 plus a pro fee per 1 1/2 minute single dance entry to compete for a little sticker or ribbon at dance competitions.

#3--HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE. Was the keyboard being smashed that person's personal property? If not, that person needs to be taken aside. ("Oh, and Jim, can I see you for just 2 minutes after class?") Then tell said person "I understand your frustrations, but I know you know better than to do anything that might harm the equipment. So I just want to make sure we are on the same page: if anything happens to that keyboard, you will be held accountable."

I sometimes have to do this when someone isn't turning in work, or is falling asleep in class, etc.
 
Yes and yes to ground rules.

The very first thing I do, on the first day of class, after introductions, is give my ground rules. Since, these days, I teach adult peers, I invite them to suggest additional ground rules as well. Depending on the rule, I may choose to offer an explanation of why the rule is needed. But the rules are non-negotiable.

It really helps to have rules posted in the classroom as well.

I love flip charts. :-)

More later.
 
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