Motivations for studying Tango Nuevo
- Thread starter kieronneedscake
- Start date
chrisjj
New Member
If by nuevo dancing you mean that attributed to Gustavo Naveira, Fabian Salas etc. may I just say this is contrary to all the evidence I know, including all I've heard them say personally and read from them in interviews. The idea their nuevo was born of considerations of music is a myth that arose much later, in the minds of misguided disciples. Their nuevo was born of considerations of movement. E.g. see Fabian's seminal interview of 2001 on totango.net - he mentions music not even once, but steps in just about every paragraph.
opendoor
Forum Master
Re: old hat
I'm not surprised. Who would admit it actually (and not to you, at all).
And, I did accuse Pablo Veron of dancing almost traditionally, didn´t I ?
Cheers
I'm not surprised. Who would admit it actually (and not to you, at all).
And, I did accuse Pablo Veron of dancing almost traditionally, didn´t I ?
Cheers
tangonuevo
New Member
I'm almost sorry this thread came back up, but because it did, and I can't resist a troll, here goes:
One can easily dance "nuevo" in amongst close embrace dancers without creating ANY disruption, and infact without even being noticed unless people really study what you're doing. I think that the issue is that those dancing nuevo in such a manner go unnoticed by those who don't get it simply because they are in fact NOT creating disruption. It would appear that for some, the definition of "nuevo" is that it causes disruption!
I can easily lead a volcada that you can not tell, unless you really look, wasn't a simple and very traditional puente. I can easily lead a colgada that takes no more space or time than a close embrace molinette. I can easily lead a back sacada that takes no more space or time than a close embrace ocho cortada. Etc, etc,etc..........
Okay TN. Calm down and take it easy. You'll probably regret this in the morning, and it's just a dance anyway. And don't you have work to do?!!!
Peaches
Well-Known Member
I think I'm in love... *swoon* LOL.
Captain Jep
Active Member
I was going to wait till you went back under the bridge ... try to resist ... no ... no ... sorry no I cant.
You just dont get it do you? It's not the fact that you can do moves without actually hitting people that matters. It's that you cant be trusted to dance considerately that matters.
Remember - people are dancing close embrace around you. That means that the leader has a limited field of vision to one side. If you dance with energy near him he will likely flinch. He doesnt want you to go backwards. He doesnt want you to spin like a whirly top in front of him. He just wants your movements to be predictable and in the line of dance.
If you can do that then fine. But my experience is that 95% of the time that doesnt happen. And that's pretty annoying when as a CE leader you are doing your utmost to behave yourself on the dance floor.
You just dont get it do you? It's not the fact that you can do moves without actually hitting people that matters. It's that you cant be trusted to dance considerately that matters.
Remember - people are dancing close embrace around you. That means that the leader has a limited field of vision to one side. If you dance with energy near him he will likely flinch. He doesnt want you to go backwards. He doesnt want you to spin like a whirly top in front of him. He just wants your movements to be predictable and in the line of dance.
If you can do that then fine. But my experience is that 95% of the time that doesnt happen. And that's pretty annoying when as a CE leader you are doing your utmost to behave yourself on the dance floor.
Captain Jep
Active Member
Well what fun is that?
Actually, I think what the Captain is getting at, is that when you have one of these guys leading the swinging boleos, ganchos, lifts, and stuff, he might not be hitting people, because the other leaders are doing everything they can to avoid him. However, this is distracting them from enjoying their own dance. Sure, there were no collisions, but my criteria for success is a little higher than that.
Now if someone like TN can do his things and not cause a disruption, then I'm fine with it. The point is that no collisions does not equate to no disruptions (at least not for some of us leaders).
tangonuevo
New Member
In all seriousness, I meant what I said about good nuevo going unnoticed by the I dance CE only crowd, especially when the nuevo is danced in a close embrace! And wrt trust, how can the CE dancer in front of me be trusted not to do an ocho-cortado that 1. stops his forward motion and disrupts the ronde, and 2. doesn't cause his follow to step counter LOD and into my space? Etc.
So lets pick one. Say a volcada. In all seriousness, how can you, without crawling around on the floor to watch what my partner's feet did, tell that I didn't lead a _very_ traditional, very common, close embrace puente?
Once we've done this one, we can go through the rest if you would like.
Captain Jep
Active Member
Exactly DC. Or possibly standing there like a bunny in the middle of the road and waiting for the big bright lights to go away..
tangonuevo
New Member
And who ever said nuevo was "swinging boleos, ganchos, lifts". We are back to self fulfilling definitions. I can certainly lead boleos and ganchos (I _never_ lead lifts in a crowd - that's just stupid) that also go totally unnoticed by my neighbor, and occupy no more space and are no more threatening to my neighbors, _even_ perceptually, than molinettes and ocho-cortados.
Now if CE to you is nothing but small steps in the LOD and steps in place or simple holds while waiting for the floor ahead of you to clear, you have an excellent point. But for 95% of the CE dancers, this is not enough.
Peaches
Well-Known Member
I am in 100% agreement. For me the key word is "discretion."Well what fun is that?
Actually, I think what the Captain is getting at, is that when you have one of these guys leading the swinging boleos, ganchos, lifts, and stuff, he might not be hitting people, because the other leaders are doing everything they can to avoid him. However, this is distracting them from enjoying their own dance. Sure, there were no collisions, but my criteria for success is a little higher than that.
Now if someone like TN can do his things and not cause a disruption, then I'm fine with it. The point is that no collisions does not equate to no disruptions (at least not for some of us leaders).
On a huge open floor, with tons of room, with few couples, big movements can be done without collisions and without disruptions. On a smaller, more crowded floor--not appropriate.
On a smaller, more crowded floor, smaller nuevo movements can be done without ever disrupting the flow of the dance. Think of...er, whatchacallit...walking sacada thingies. (Technical term, that.) Gentle, minor leg displacements blended into an otherwise straightforward walk. No harm, no foul; no collisions, no disruptions. But! Still a nuevo move! Or a molinete...generally considered a perfectly acceptable move for reasonably close floors. If the guy throws a small sacada in there...again, a nuevo move that doesn't disrupt anything or anyone. Or, if standing there waiting for room in front to move (b/c of some jerk doing large nuevo moves, heh...), nothing wrong with doing a small volcada.
I just refuse to believe it has anything to do with the style itself, and everything to do with how and when those style-specific moves are executed. (That a ton of people in the world are clueless twits is another issue altogether.)
Captain Jep
Active Member
lol cant wait...
OK I'll take the ocho cortado first. What - you mean the CE dancer isnt actually allowed to stop and do a move in place? Even if the leader does take a step back he's leading the lady circularly. It's a fairly predictable sort of step for a CE dancer to lead. On the other hand, who knows what direction you're going to go in when dancing tango nuevo?
No problem with you leading a "puente". It might be a bit "uncool" and "minimalist" for some of your colleagues though .. lol
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