TTanguero
Forum Master
That seems 100% contradictory! You have said you view it as competitive, about 'pecking order', ie. social status.
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TTanguero
Forum Master
Pretty sure this is trolling, but responding separately in case you seriously intended us to believe ...
(a) That you approach posture by thinking of how to achieve a particular look rather than how to organize your body internally, with the visible results an effect rather than a cause; and
(b) That the dancers treating tango as a pick-up activity* are the ones focused on the internal feeling of the dance rather than those who refer rather frequently to the youth and physical attributes of their desired dance partners.
*I mean, it seems to me exceedingly unlikely that anyone gets into tango to pick up women, given it has to be the least efficient method on Earth!
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Oh, I attribute nothing to the scene since it was a fiction.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
These are not the same. Estilo del Centro is generally associated with close embrace dancing in the crowded downtown clubs. Urquiza is an estilo del barrio form.
Well spotted! Must have missed a 'cf.'
As a separate issue, I do sometimes wonder if these 'styles' usually originating from the GA, and their assigned restrictions/observations (e.g. ganchos, etc), have any real meaning or impact nowadays in 2025, apart from competition rules or for pedants.
Probably now, as then, we see something we like and add it in, maybe become bored with it (e.g. 8CB, extreme colgadas, leg wraps as El Pulpo, etc), and drop them or modify them (or maybe some just become too complex or inappropriate for the social dancefloor). We're no longer tied to some barrio as AT is communicated outside BsAs. Poor floorcraft may not simply be a consequence of lack of teaching.
I think there's another option, or sub-division. For an extremy small minority it is also another 'pick-up' opportunity. As an activity, as you say, there are easier options. But there are also some, as they advance in skill, who do focus on that 'internal feeling' as their primary objective. You yourself have referred to similar. And, of course, there are some who promote AT as a sensual 'feeling' in a more poetic, lyrical, way, and of course the whole 'wellness' ethos. It's not necessarily about youth and physical attributes, but that feeling from a long 'hug' with another human.
Moving way off topic, except that is sometimes an alternative movie theme compared with, say, the 'macho' Valentino of his era.
opendoor
Forum Master
That is a form of self-realization, thru social status. Of course, this form depends on others and a community.
opendoor
Forum Master
I didn't mean "pick-up," which is unusual and rather impossible in tango. I meant physical contact. Unfortunately, there are some unpleasant men in my community, and I always warn (female) newcomers about these types.
TTanguero
Forum Master
There are, but they usually have very poor tango skills and are mostly instantly recognisable as the handeceo guys.
Hmm, still seems the polar opposite to me, but each to their own!
opendoor
Forum Master
Hi Brummbär, the term "estilo del Centro" was coined over 15 years ago by Horácio Godoy. He used it to describe the lack of style in downtown BsAs. The barrios were always responsible for style, aesthetics or difference, for example, barrio Villa Urquiza for tango de salón or barrio Almagro for the style now called milonguero style.
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Maybe even older (2010 - so late?) than that, but so what? There's other old names like petitereo, confiteria from the 1950's. Interesting, but I'm unconvinced that any of it helps dancing AT today (analogies with the Bible 1 Cor 1:12 One of you says, “I follow Paul"; another, “I follow Apollos"...) 'Styles' reflected the environment and necessary floorcraft - but much of that discipline has gone. But some interesting vocabulary!
It is a big assumption that discipline might have existed.
Most attendees going to milongas in their barrios probably knew each other. That could lead to politeness or not. Some milongas in the barrios might be higher levels than others. Human nature doesn’t change. The same reasons that cause people to be indiscipline now existed back then. Peer pressure could inhibit some who itched to break whatever unspoken codes were adhered to in the barrios or particular dancehalls.
pianistamediano
Forum Master
I tend to agree with @opendoor on this:
And whether or not it needs to have been taught by an accepted representative from an older generation for the established styles, well, that's none of my business, more so because parallel/convergent evolution is a thing. There are almost definitely movements done by performers which people think are new, but were actually done by someone like Petróleo already.
Your own style — tu propio estilo — is the way you dance, unless you're a carbon copy of someone else. I've seen a lot of that going on in events, and it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. No doubt they're in vogue, but what even is the point of copying someone else's style when you can't do it as well as they do, instead of walking down the harder path of creating your own?
Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend!
And whether or not it needs to have been taught by an accepted representative from an older generation for the established styles, well, that's none of my business, more so because parallel/convergent evolution is a thing. There are almost definitely movements done by performers which people think are new, but were actually done by someone like Petróleo already.
Your own style — tu propio estilo — is the way you dance, unless you're a carbon copy of someone else. I've seen a lot of that going on in events, and it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. No doubt they're in vogue, but what even is the point of copying someone else's style when you can't do it as well as they do, instead of walking down the harder path of creating your own?
Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend!
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
I don't know that they influence how we dance today, which draws from multiple sources, but they are important for understanding the history and genesis of tango (and its styles). It's the reason why some believe the term "milonguero," which has a very broad meaning should be replaced by "el estilo del centro." Of course, that would be too complicated so we get the misnomer. But we get the gist.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
You sure about that? I'll have to check TangoVoice again and see what's said there.