Mugre

[itwillhappen]

In the link in the initial post I read:

Lately, it seems the trend in tango is to strive for perfection. Once I saw a Russian couple dance an incredibly beautiful and flawless escenario performance. Their movements were elegant and breadth-taking, and their emotional expression was rich and powerful. But the Argentinian milongueros turned their heads and avoided watching, as if saying that that was not tango. Why? Because to them it was so perfect. There is no “mugre” in perfection, and without “mugre” there is no tango.

Consequently, "mugre" is the dance expression that arises from a lot of dancing and little instruction. Let's not forget that readily available, structured, commercial tango lessons are a relatively recent development. "Argentinian milongueros" might have had neither the opportunity, nor the money, nor the time, nor the necessity for such things. It was a kind of natural selection based on talent and will; either you learned it by doing, or you embarrassed yourself and stayed away at some point.

 

[Rabbit]

Let's not forget that readily available, structured, commercial tango lessons are a relatively recent development.

I believe that no amount of tango lessons can teach the feeling. You have to discover it yourself.

 

[itwillhappen]

I believe that no amount of tango lessons can teach the feeling. You have to discover it yourself.

This can be taught, of course!
In psychotherapy, one also teaches how to recognize, name, and express feelings.
In education, one also addresses a lack of mathematical understanding.

However, all of this remains within the frame of individual characteristics, talent, willpower, available time and resources. And, needless to say, it is by no way "mugre".

 

[Brummbaer]

I believe that no amount of tango lessons can teach the feeling. You have to discover it yourself.

You can teach the look; you can be taught to play the role; you can think that you have 'it', and others may believe that. Your own feelings are your own. Mugre can mean different things depending on the context. It's another label for je ne sais quoi.

 

[Bailango]

One of the musicality exercises we did once was to listen to a minute of the song. Then, think of a word and dance to that word for the rest of the song without revealing it to the partner.

You could both have different words and emotions and still dance a fun song together.

I am not really sure the goal of such exercise as thinking a word and then dancing whole song to it. Frankly I don’t find this particular exercise useful for musicality. What exactly does it seek to achieve.

 

[Bailango]

First time I heard the term “mugre” was on here by @pianistamediano. I had never heard it before. Not from any of over 100 instructors I must have crossed paths with.

I assumed it to mean earthiness. As opposed to polished. The fact that this thread tries to put so many different explanations for it is proof that there is no agreed definitions to it.

I don’t think elegance in movement is present only in dancers trained in modern studios or ballrooms. It is neither difference in attitude nor technical proficiency. Closest analogy I can think of is erudite Oxford scholar speaking like other Oxford scholars versus someone speaking the way it is spoken in the locality they grew up in. If speaking in the same topic both can be eloquent or not, both can be expressive or not, both can be exciting or not, etc. Chosen medium of delivery doesn’t diminish or enhance other factors.

 

[brujo]

I am not really sure the goal of such exercise as thinking a word and then dancing whole song to it. Frankly I don’t find this particular exercise useful for musicality. What exactly does it seek to achieve.

The word is a shortcut for emotion. The intention is not dance a word in every song. But rather that you can have a different interpretation of the song, which you would have obviously in reality. It was one of the few classes I have had where it was exploring bringing in an emotion based on what you felt on the music. It was demonstrating that even if you had radically different feelings or sentiments that the song brought up, that is part of the communication.

 

[Brummbaer]

Closest analogy I can think of is erudite Oxford scholar speaking like other Oxford scholars versus someone speaking the way it is spoken in the locality they grew up in.

Do you have a 'work' voice? Or even a 'telephone' voice?

Speaking as someone who's child is an Oxford graduate - they have their work voice and persona, and a home voice and persona (amongst others!) In some respects it's role-play, but then it becomes what you do in that context. It's even more complicated when you get to doing the same thing in other languages and cultures. But how you convey that information does have an impact. Sometimes it needs more 'dirt', or 'earthiness', or realism.

 

[Rabbit]

I am not really sure the goal of such exercise as thinking a word and then dancing whole song to it. Frankly I don’t find this particular exercise useful for musicality. What exactly does it seek to achieve.

The prompt is a lens that focuses your attention on different elements (or combinations of elements) of the music

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I believe that no amount of tango lessons can teach the feeling. You have to discover it yourself.

You're quoting Ricardo Vidort. ;-)

 

[itwillhappen]

Exactly - Ricardo Vidort was of the opinion that you don't need more than eight (private) lessons. After that, you go to a práctica and develop your own dance style.
Face it, my friends: you aren't "mugre".

 

[opendoor]

Exactly..

Guys, you are exaggerating! As you know, I went to milongas for a whole year without attending one single lesson. I was happy until my followers whispered to me I needed to work on my posture. So I did, with instructors who also had ballet training or physiotherapy. Vidort is right in principle, but in my case (and I'm not the only one), you need instructors who understand movement physiology.
Perhaps Vidort was born with an ideal physique and an exceptional sense of his body, who knows? I doubt it, firstly because most Porteñas themselves are terrible dancers and cannot judge, and secondly because he certainly never received honest feedback.
(disclaimer: by the way "mugre" is the opposite of "effortless")

 

[Rabbit]

You're quoting Ricardo Vidort. ;-)

I guess "the version of tango most of the teachers are promoting isn't good" is at least a fairly common minority point of view

 

[Rabbit]

Face it, my friends: you aren't "mugre".

No, of course not. I deliberately forgot everything and reconstructed it from more general principles. And I didn't grow up in a rough neighbourhood. Therefore any "mugre" elements must be, essentially, acting.

 

[Brummbaer]

Face it, my friends: you aren't "mugre".

That which might get that attribute now is most likely 'acting' - hence the term now has wider associations. There might be a few performers/teachers on an upwardly mobile path who intrinsically embody that.