Non-Tango Life Partner or Not-Only Tango Partner?

[Tango Newbie]

Many women have told my dear wife (DW) that she is lucky to have a husband who dances. Many have said to us they wish their husbands would dance.

You hit the nail on the head on that. My SO has had lots of lady friends (with and without a SO at home) tell her this same thing. The divorced ones wish they had a SO or husband who would be their partner, and those married and the spouse stays at home wished he'd join them. One lady who I enjoy dancing with has a husband who stays at home, and told me my SO is lucky she has me as her partner, and she wished her husband would come.

Another thing I've noticed is while we socialize with everyone, we tend to gravitate towards other married/partnered couples.

The number one source of followers in my community is divorced ladies.

That certainly seems to be the case in our local community. And yes, in my short time in AT at least 2 of my SO's single friends have essentially stopped dancing when they met someone.

My SO always loved to dance (modern dance in college, and Salsa after that), and took up tango right after a divorce in 2000. A few years later she met someone and took a break until she convinced him to take up AT. After years of being together they went their separate ways, and she stopped again due to moving and other things, then started going again sporadically in our local community. One person she was with prior to me didn't like AT, so she didn't go at all.

When we met during early Covid, she hadn't been dancing much for a couple years prior, then became enthusiastic about AT again when I mentioned I'd be willing to learn, so now it's our 'number one' activity we do together.

When she was dancing as a single (divorced) lady, her biggest complaint was there are too many other ladies, so there were times where she didn't dance much at milongas and festivals.

If you surveyed activities in order of how romantic they are, things like dancing and watching a romantic movie would be high on the list, and things like golf, hiking, etc. would be low.

Agreed. Prior to my SO, years ago I used to go to a local 'dive bar' a couple Saturday evenings per month for 'date-night' with my (then) wife and we'd dance for about 3 hours. We weren't going there to drink (she drank water and I'd have one beer), we were only there to dance with each other. It was a romantic thing to do, and we shared in that experience.

Since I enjoy regular date nights with my SO, I wouldn't like her getting all dressed-up, going off to milongas on Saturday evenings, dancing the night away while I sit at home. Not knowing how to dance AT, it would have been hard for me to go with her and sit on the sidelines while she danced all night. Besides, that would have been awkward.

So, being a traditional, romantic guy, and knowing how much my SO loves AT (and dancing in general), I took it up. I like golf, and prior to me she never had any interest in learning, but took it up to do something I love (and took lessons). She did so with a little reluctancy because she had small issues with her elbow (from her job and tennis years ago), and never swung anything like a golf club or baseball/softball bat. We've only taken lessons (and will be starting those back up again now that the weather is nicer), and have only golfed one game, but I give her credit.

 

[Brummbaer]

The husbands says "No way" with just those 2 words, or more words with that message. I do find it sad the husband won't even give it a try to give his wife some joy.

I have no idea what inducement you have to offer to get males into general dancing, never mind AT. Even the prospect of young, fit, sexy women held close doesn't do it even when solo (sorry if that's being 'macho', but you take the point regarding the view of the male brain: there's a potential attraction even if there are better options available, which they don't follow either). OK, there's a high learning requirement, but what is the fear? Think there's been a thread on this but no workable solutions.

 

[opendoor]

..Many have said to us they wish their husbands would dance..

Whenever I read that, I suddenly have sad memories of my marriage. We both had a background in BR. But at some point I became alienated inside. I think it started with being disgusted with the flamboyant and over the top styling in standard and latin. I totally refused and didn't dance for many years. My ex-wife tried to keep up her hobby, but eventually stopped dancing as well, as that dance partner management became too tiring. As the end of marriage loomed, I finally turned to the dark side.

 

[Bailango]

We have men whose SO doesn’t dance. We have women whose SO other doesn’t dance. No matter which type of partner dance, we are a leader heavy community. It has been that way for over two decades to an extent that the followers don’t have an incentive to get better beyond a point. Last week’s milonga had so many more men that it was a competition to get dances.

In general there are more women than men in both USA and Europe. Only Sweden, Norway, UK, Ireland, and Iceland have equal ratio when I glance at the map. I don’t know what the ratios are across age ranges. In addition to aversion to dancing by men in Northen America and Europe, the gender ratio being more in favour of women can’t be discounted as a contributing factor for more women seen in social dancing.

If I have to ballpark the numbers in local dancing community here, more people who dance are unattached. According to USA govt census site close to 50% of Americans are single. I don’t know if they count all unmarried as single. I don’t know what percentage of population is non-heteronormative because I see a very few of them embrace partner dancing as well. There could be other reasons for that including partner dancing culture and structure heavily skews towards heteronormative. Therefore from a population that’s already majority female, you have find additional contributing factors.

Of the people who are attached in our rather large dancing community, a majority have SO who doesn’t dance. To an extent the regular couples make up less than 10% of dancers on any given night. I can think of only two or three top of my head. That includes those that are dating. The number of people with regular dance partners outnumber number of couples.

It naturally follows then that most attached women I dance with have a SO that doesn’t dance. It is same on the other side with the men. Of a few men whose wives do dance, only the men are out dancing regularly. Wives will show up once in a blue moon.

Over the years my other observation has been that the couple where both dance, tend to disappear from the dance scene. I have several couple friends who gave up dancing as an activity.

Those in 40s to mid-50s seat on the top of bell curve in our tango community. Interesting the most popular milongas skew younger by which I mean less representation of those who are 60+ and more of those in 20s/30s. There are milongas where youngest would be someone who is in early 50s. Those are few. Also the skill level tends to be lower.

Ime of those who are attached, more women wish their SO danced. They are not sad about it. If they were I doubt they would enjoy dancing. The men express less of that sentiment. They are not sad either that their SO doesn’t dance.

If people are feeling sad in life in general for whatever reason, are less likely to show up for social dancing. People who are truly enjoying dancing are doing so irrespective of whether they are single or attached.

When there is a skill gap between the attached couple, it has more often than not acted as an impediment. Without right level of maturity it leads to guilt feelings on both side. The more skilled partner doesn’t wish less skill partner to feel ignored but enjoys more dancing with someone at their level. The less skill partner doesn’t want to drag down the SO. Often the less skill partner drops out of the scene. Or both do. I seen this dynamic more among younger couples in 20s and 30s.

 

[opendoor]

..we are a leader heavy community..

I'm surprised. In my hometown Hamburg there is a large surplus of followers and that's the same in Berlin. That's why I had a big argument with my girlfriend. When I complained twice in a row about the excess of men in milongas, she exploded in outrage. I'll come with you next week, she said, and we'll count those present independently of one another. Interestingly, she was always right: what I perceived as a blatant excess of men turned out to be an excess of women. I must have unconsciously overlooked and sorted out the majority of the followers present.

 

[TTanguero]

we are a leader heavy community. It has been that way for over two decades

Where is this? I'm astonished! Aside from just after lockdown, when women were more cautious than men about returning to dance, I don't think I've ever seen that anywhere.

 

[Miradamiranda]

we are a leader heavy community.

My goodness! Where are you located? I’ve never experienced that although I have heard rumors that some communities are.

Well, there are definitely some advantages of not being attached to a dancer, I can testify. Having a guaranteed partner for the first dance doesn’t outweigh the advantages of being able to dance with anyone without having to deal with couple dynamics - for ME, but I know for other women, it’s the opposite. Also, even though guys are not outright hitting on me, the fact that I show up alone, means my dance partners don’t have to be considerate of MY situation, so I’m free to dance 3 tandas with a guy without it meaning anything more that that we like to dance with each other.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Where is this? I'm astonished! Aside from just after lockdown, when women were more cautious than men about returning to dance, I don't think I've ever seen that anywhere.

We lost a lot of people after the lockdown, dancers who never returned to the milonga. Some men, of course, but mostly women. I often see more men than women at our local events, not always but often. And at some events that is almost always the case.

 

[Tango Newbie]

I have no idea what inducement you have to offer to get males into general dancing, never mind AT. Even the prospect of young, fit, sexy women held close doesn't do it even when solo

So true. Too many men have an 'aversion' to dancing anything as 'formal' as AT. Not sure 'why' but that, coupled with (presumably) being "set-in-their-old-ways" has something to do with it. However, if I go to a 'club' here in my part of the world, there are guys of all ages dancing and some standing around the bar, possibly just there to watch, or hoping for the right moment to jump in. AT is a different beast.

 

[Bailango]

So true. Too many men have an 'aversion' to dancing anything as 'formal' as AT.

BR, Ballet, Jazz if performed count as ‘formal’. AT, salsa, zouk, bachata, kizomba, cumbia, etc all count as social dances or street dancing. Which means non-formal. I assume you are calling social dancing ‘formal’ because you perhaps consider free form solo dancing in night club as non-formal. In those two women have to mostly drag men. More men are happier standing by the bar drinking and watching. I did plenty of that in my 20s and 30s. Only half of my male friends would dance if at all or groove a little bit on the dance floor with wasn’t really dancing.

 

[Tango Newbie]

In general there are more women than men in both USA and Europe

That's what it's like in our community here in Southern CA; about 55% women to 45% men. When there are more women, my SO encourages me to dance with them, especially ladies she knows, and others who seem to be sitting longer than they should. While I like dancing with my SO the most, and she with me, I feel some 'guilt' if I (or we) sit out and I don't ask another follower who's been sitting for a tanda or two.

Sure, I know it's "social dancing", but I prefer to stick with my SO most of the time, and dance with 2-4 followers, and out of those one comes with her spouse regularly. This follower and her spouse dance about 80% of the time with others.

There has been one or two occasions where our balance was closer to 50/50, and one that I can recall where there were slightly more men (1st hour of the milonga). When that happened, my SO knew if I wasn't dancing with her, she could dance as much as she wanted. But being somewhat selective (which she is seeing she has me as her partner), she still only danced with less than a handful of other leaders (2-4).

Even with more single women (without a partner/SO) there are leaders my SO knows who'll still come around at some point and want to dance with her. One older leader in his mid-70's whose wife doesn't come anymore, always seeks her out. We joke about that sometimes on our way to certain milonga; "who's" going to be there, and "who's" going to want to dance with her. In fact, I tease her about it, and she always says; "you have many more desirable women to dance with than I do men."

Of the people who are attached in our rather large dancing community, a majority have SO who doesn’t dance. To an extent the regular couples make up less than 10% of dancers on any given night.

A majority of the attached dancers in our community (with a spouse at home who don't dance) is generally about the same, with about 10% being the 'high' for regular couples with a 'low' as small as 5% some nights, but on average more like 8-10%.

Overall, our community is made-up primarily of older dancers over 45 (80%), with younger dancers (20's-45) around 20%.

 

[Bailango]

I was referring to gender ratio in general population. 55:45 will be highly abnormal anywhere in the world

 

[opendoor]

...assume you are calling social dancing ‘formal’ because you perhaps consider free form solo dancing in night club as non-formal..

I would classify the dances differently. The hip hop dancer will train in a very disciplined manner, usually dancing solo in an absolut non-formal environment. But the improvisation parts are rather small. Salsa is taught in a very formal way, there are codigos, figures and stylistic aspects, and people dance in commercial clubs along the pista. BR-dances are taught in a highly formalized and codified manner, but still have a social setting in my part of the world. I for one also dance 5rhythms, which is fully improvised solo dancing. Dancing takes place behind closed doors by prior arrangement. Flamenco, actually a partner dance, degenerated into solo and formation. Flamenco looks improvised but is highly formal. It is danced on the pista where it was created, but elsewhere de facto today behind closed doors.
So in summary, I think we have to invent different systems for solo, couple and formation dance. Each system has proficieny as the y-axis and social implementation as the x-axis. And, processed in this way, we will find widely scattered point clouds for almost all of these dances.

 

[opendoor]

..must have unconsciously overlooked and sorted out the majority of the followers present.

But there are actually classes and courses for certain new dances with a clear physical surplus of men. At least that applies to kizomba and bachata sensual in my city. That's how it must have been in BsAs at the beginning of the GA of tango.

 

[tangoing]

We lost a lot of people after the lockdown, dancers who never returned to the milonga. Some men, of course, but mostly women. I often see more men than women at our local events, not always but often. And at some events that is almost always the case.

Yup I see this is often the case in nyc practicas/milongas